Markings on a Home-Built 80% to Make It Legal for Transfer?

[kcstott]

As I stated above in my prior post, the ATF only requires and can only require engraving of identifying data on NFA firearms (e.g. machine guns, sbr, sbs, and silencers) OR firearms made by a business entity engaged in commercial firearms manufacturing. http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/BAT...2004-11-09.pdf This Hoffman ATF letter expressly limits the mandator serial numbering to NFA weapons for which he/she consulted the ATF. See question 11 in the following ATF guide: https://www.atf.gov/file/3871/download The Hoffman ATF letter repeats that home builders for personal use need only add the identifying information upon transfer.

OP asked what information is required to be imprinted upon the firearm upon his/her attempt to sell it. This is THE ANSWER:

I. FEDERAL INFORMATION REQUIREMENT IMPOSED UPON THE FFL DEALER INVOLVED IN A TRANSFERotherwise dispose, temporarily or permanently, of any firearm to any person, other than another licensee, unless the licensee records the transaction on a firearms transaction record, Form 4473). Form 4473, Section D, requires "manufacturer/importers name, make, model, serial number, type, and caliber." https://www.atf.gov/file/61446/download These are the requirements for the FFL dealer to transfer under federal law. If the OP wants to transfer that handgun, he/she will have to give the FFL a frame with a serial number on it.

That matter concluded, now we turn to California law.

II. CALIFORNIA INFORMATION REQUIREMENT PLACED ON THE SELLER AND FFL DEALER PRIOR TO TRANSFER OF A HANDGUN
As Quiet so aptly explained SEVERAL POST PREVIOUSLY WHICH PEOPLE ARE IGNORING, Cal. Penal Code 27530 provides the rule for sale/transfer of a firearm:
No person shall sell or otherwise transfer ownership in a handgun unless the firearm bears either:
(a) The name of the manufacturer, the manufacturer's make or model, and a manufacturer's serial number assigned to that firearm.
(b) The identification number or mark assigned to the firearm by the Department of Justice pursuant to Section 23910.

Unlike federal law, California law does not require type or caliber. I reiterate a home builder of firearms for personal use is not required to place serial numbers on a firearm, unless he/she wishes to transfer the firearm at which time the above information must be placed upon the firearm's receiver. Can we now stop beating a dead horse and make a sticky of my posts?

I thought the Hoffman sticky was good enough. see it comes down to reading comprehension, and the actual act of completing the passage, to many kids nowadays want everything handed to them, they want the answer but refuse to look for it. it's like I said I can show you how, but I can't learn it for you. and that the problem with the yougens of today. they just want to follow a youtube tutorial because they can't even take the time to read a set of instructions. School has killed some much problem solving and critical thinking, College kids can't get a job. Shop class ain't in high school anymore. kids don't get a chance to screw up and learn how to fix it. they just test out. or get a passing grade.
not and A but a completed...

[liber]

to many kids nowadays want everything handed to them, they want the answer but refuse to look for it. it's like I said I can show you how, but I can't learn it for you. and that the problem with the yougens of today. they just want to follow a youtube tutorial because they can't even take the time to read a set of instructions.

I couldn't agree with you more. For that matter a lot of people could use the search feature on calguns more rather than just asking the same old questions over and over, those that do so are no different than the entitled generation.

School has killed some much problem solving and critical thinking, College kids can't get a job. Shop class ain't in high school anymore. kids don't get a chance to screw up and learn how to fix it. they just test out. or get a passing grade. not and A but a completed...

Yeah, but it's not hard to understand why there is very little shop in school anymore...much of the Administration screams too much liability, yes, it's because they have created it. They have created a generation of kids that is incapable of working problems out by themselves, with basic math. Machines require the ability to use basic math or you f#@$ up. Even experienced machinists will f#@$ up, but if you put one of these entitled kids on a machine the chances are much higher. Manual machines are becoming a thing of the past anyway...the entitled generation only wants to push a button on a CNC and have it crap out a part for them. They don't even want to buy the CNC, just use someone elses. It matters not how it is made, just give it to me.

That said, there still are people that make stuff with their hands, and probably will continue to be for quite some time. Speaking for myself, I'd rather spend 10x the time making something just to be able to say I made it myself. Probably not very smart, but it drives me to build things that I would otherwise not have.

[kcstott]

The astounding thing is the separation between generations, I'm not that damn old And I sound just like my dad. My little brothers 29 years old fix 90% of their own stuff or ask for help and get their hands involved to learn. subtract seven to ten years off of that and get the typical 19 to to 22 year old absolutely no initiative to learn or so little it just make me wonder...

Manual Machinists are hard to find but still have a rare but needed skill. The New shop I'm at hired a mold maker at the shop supervisor, and from his actions I'm pretty sure he can't or wont run a manual machine. he just wastes hours and days screwing with the CNC's doing stuff that could be done in half the time on a manual machine.

I learned my trade because I knew i would not have the money to buy what I wanted. so I'd have to make it.

Thats not true so much anymore... But I still love making instead of buying.

One certain things, I already expressed my feeling toward a bolt rifle.

Now what i would like to make is a test action. a bigg friggin four or six inch diameter test action with a interrupting threaded breach. Just like a 16" gun off a WWII battrle ship. build it to take test barrels and use that for proofing loads and pressure calibration. would also make a nice bench rest gun. get rid of all this conventional design stuff and just build the most accurate firearm ever built.

two things, One: The large diameter is used to control tighter tolerances. It's easier to control alignment if the bolt lug diameter is three inches instead of just over an inch.

Two: More lug lock up surface area. less action flex less vibration.

that or the plans for my 22LR Gatling gun. but thats going to take a year or two of machine work.


And now the thread is officially HIJACKED

[glock_this]

Ok I've looked @ this thread like 11 times & the same one thing keeps popping out to me... anyone else notice the photo shows a vice attached to the trigger guard? Is the op poster torquing on the build in that setup?

[kcstott]

Ok I've looked @ this thread like 11 times & the same one thing keeps popping out to me... anyone else notice the photo shows a vice attached to the trigger guard? Is the op torquing on the build in that setup?

nope, He can't because if he did there would be another thread of "How do i fix this"

[rromeo]

Probably not, primarily because the OP didn't post that photo.

[Nathan Krynn]

The Hoffman ATF letter repeats that home builders for personal use need only add the identifying information upon transfer.

OP asked what information is required to be imprinted upon the firearm upon his/her attempt to sell it. This is THE ANSWER:

Selling = Transferring

So the answer is it must be marked as 478.92

[ptoguy2002]

When the 50 BMG ban came in 2004, one of the DOJ faq questions was how to mark a homebuilt for registration. That was the only official thing I remember seeing about marking homebuilts.

[Nathan Krynn]

Looking more closely at 27 CFR 478.92 you need to place your name, caliber, serial number and manufacturing location on any firearm you wish to be able to sell. A model designation appears optional.

-Gene
__________________
Gene Hoffman
Chairman, The Calguns Foundation


2nd sticky down, 6th post.

As kcstott said this is a sticky all ready. From the Chairman of the Calguns Foundation.

[liber]

2nd sticky down, 6th post.

Not to nit pick, but it's the 9th post.

(6s are 9s turned upside down)

[Nathan Krynn]

Not to nit pick, but it's the 9th post.

(6s are 9s turned upside down)

Awesome. I am dyslexic but 9 to 6 is a new one for me.

[justinbowser]

Dyslexic Inversion...

[Rorge Retson]

Dyslexic Inversion...

Better than cranio-rectal insertion...

[lone shooter]

Your legal name (whats on your DL)
city (where it was made)
state (where it was made)
model (whatever you want)
caliber (whatever you want)
s/n (whatever you want but must end with a number)

I'm about to do my 80% lowers tomorrow. Two are "AR Pistol"s and I will use that as the model but what do people use for Rifle? I was thinking Carbine. I know it's whatever you want but I want to use something that makes sense. Planning on keeping these in light of what happened yesterday.