1911 extractor tuning

[fritztkatt]

Check out my thread in handguns about my dealings with Para CS for a primer.

Anyway, my question is: does the extractor actually have to grab the case? For my new or old extractor to grab the case, it would need metal added. In the references I've found about fitting/tuning, it is supposed to grab the case of a live round (or snap-cap of proper weight), and hold it to the breech face during a gentle shake.

There is probably 1/32", maybe less, between the claw and rim, but definitely enough to let it fall free without even considering holding the case. It doesn't protrude enough to have the tip of the extractor press on the case head. I tried to relieve the hump right before the claw and bend it more, successfully in that respect, it did move the claw closer to the rim/case, which looks "right", but not enough to satisfy what's supposed to be "right".

Knowing I can't add metal to move the claw back, allowing this to work, I put the pistol together and loaded up 2 mags of 230gr ball. It fed, chambered, extracted, and ejected reliably when cycled by hand. I expect it to function just fine, having never had an issue with any brass cased ammo. Tomorrow I'll shoot 150 rounds through it, PPU and freedom reloads.

Any ideas or input, gentlemen?

Edit: if it works, should I bother with further toiling?

[kcstott]

Extractor tuning is tension based. Once you have the book shaped and honed to a nice polish you then tension the extractor by bending until a gage can be pulled from the breach face with sufficient force. I don't know the tension spec off the top of my head but that's why we have books

Moving the claw back will only add to malfunctions. The face of the claw should clear a case head but the side should hold tension on the case pressing it to the left into the slot on the breach face.

[fritztkatt]

If I read you correctly, the extractor is supposed to PUSH the case into the side of the breech face, not PULL the rim into the breech face? Assuming that's the case, then I'd need to relieve the piece more and bend it some more.

That completely changes the game. I thought it was the opposite.

['ol shooter]

The case rim rises up under and behind the claw in feeding. Tensioning the extractor, even with the tool and gage, which I have, still involves feel and patience, because you might have to remove the extractor several times before getting it just right. After you do a few, you get better at it. You will know if it's too tight because you will develop feeding issues, because the rim cannot slide easily under the claw, and will hang halfway in the cycle. Too loose, and extraction and ejection will suffer. I have found that I get it right more often using an actual case instead of the gage.

[Fatcat]

The case rim rises up under and behind the claw in feeding. Tensioning the extractor, even with the tool and gage, which I have, still involves feel and patience, because you might have to remove the extractor several times before getting it just right. After you do a few, you get better at it. You will know if it's too tight because you will develop feeding issues, because the rim cannot slide easily under the claw, and will hang halfway in the cycle. Too loose, and extraction and ejection will suffer. I have found that I get it right more often using an actual case instead of the gage.

Yes, +1 what 'ol shooter said. I had tried to tune a factory Para extractor before and gave up as it was way out of spec (too much hook length) and it could not keep tension. Used this:

http://www.egwguns.com/index.php?p=product&id=1541

EGW also makes an adapter sleeve for the Para power extractor so you can use a standard 1911 extractor.

[kcstott]

Wait this is one of those POS extractors where Para thought they knew more then JMB??

Yeah do yourself a favor and chuck that crap and go back to a standard 1911 extractor.

If I read you correctly, the extractor is supposed to PUSH the case into the side of the breech face, not PULL the rim into the breech face? Assuming that's the case, then I'd need to relieve the piece more and bend it some more.

That completely changes the game. I thought it was the opposite.

Speaking about a standard 1911 extractor as the slide moves forward, either by releasing the slide or a natural return to battery motion, the breach face picks up a round from the magazine that has been lifted into place, as the slide moves forward the inertia of the cartridge make it have contact with the breach face and as the slide moves forward the round is striped from the magazine and pressed up while the feed ramp on the barrel guides the bullet nose into the chamber the cartridge then straightens out and is pressed up under the extractor just as the slide fully closes.

There is no need for the extractor to pull anything to the rear. it is merely a guide and if it's to tight the cartridge will not slide up underneath it easily and will cause a FTF. The only time the extractor pulls the case back is on extraction.

[ar15barrels]

If the extractor is not in contact with the case from the SIDE, you remove metal from the fitting pad until the extractor will grab.
Once the extractor will grab, you adjust the tension by bending.
I have the tools for bending and checking tension.

[fritztkatt]

Got it. I thought about it today and what you guys said makes sense.

The extractor is loose, but didn't have any issues with 125ish rounds today. One magazine failure (chip shooting star), sent the bullet straight up and the breech closed with a live round stove pipe. Was the last round. Had another mid-mag stove pipe, which I attribute to a limp wrist. I'd rather blame myself than the gun.

If I get some time later this week I'll tune the extractor tighter. For now I consider it functioning, but not reliable.

Managed to shoot the front sight off my glock! That was annoying! Had to put the stock sights back on... note to self: use loctite on front sight threads.

[ar15barrels]

['ol shooter]

Loaded round stove pipes are caused by too wide feed lips, can be tuned by squeezing the lips closer carefully.

[fritztkatt]

I'll keep an eye on that mag and see if it does it again, I don't recall having any issues with that mag before or after. I'm of the opinion that stuff happens.

If you shoot enough, you'll break parts and have malfunctions. It's when things keep happening that there is an issue.

I appreciate the info guys.