Making own AR barrel??

[milotrain]

to you experienced gunsmiths / machinists in so cal: do any of you ever do any interning / informal exposure to machining?

Almost all community colleges in the area run an intro to machining class. Every legit gunsmith I've ever talked to is really a machinist who is just doing easier work that pays well occasionally. Learn to be a machinist and you'll be able to figure out gunsmithing on your own. There are PLENTY of gunsmithing programs through out the country that are good if you already have a bit of machining experience. (colorado school of the trades for example)

The problem with the intern/apprentice program is that no gunsmith makes enough money to pay such a person and most of them won't incur the cost of having a "free" intern.

[kcstott]

Well said, I'm glad I'm not the only one! Have any of you guys that have professional shops considered putting together one or two day (preferrably weekend days) hands on seminars with more depth than a typical YouTube video...fitting barrels and various parts for .45 builds, something beyond beyond completing an 80% frame...or parkerizing and coating applications...or machine setups specific to working on guns...or tooling/speeds/feeds for metals found in guns and grinding lathe cutters. I inherited some decent machines and would like to learn to do more with them but simply don't have the time right now for a broader education and I suspect there are a fair number of other people here in a similar situation who either have machines that aren't being used to their potential or access to them.

Set up is a learned skill and nothing is Gun specific. you do want you have to do to keep the part on the machine and from moving.

Speeds and feeds?? You mean you haven't bought a copy of a machinery handbook yet???



My web site says one on one training $30 per hour or $200 per day

Now aside from guys wanting to bring over a 80% lower thinking i'll just turn a blind eye, I've had no takers, not a one...

I doubt that will change.... People say they want to learn but i see very little in the way of putting forth effort.

Or people expect it for free. "Oh I just want to watch" Ok sure and now a one hour job takes all day with all the questions and distractions....

Well that and again no one wants to play my way, which is how I was taught

Safety first, then learning the controls and names of all the parts of the lathe prior to starting the machine.

Then you learn to grind your tools

then you can try to turn something

Nope people want quick, dirty, and cheep.

[lwold]

one on one training $30 per hour or $200 per day

kcstott. i did see your website and the services mentioned, but thought they might be more for someone who already has the machinery (or already knows what specific machinery they want). for someone in my position (no tools, no experience) would that mean training at your home shop? that would be something i could work with. and also, thanks for posting all the additional info (like the kuhnhausen manuals).

[grymster]

Paying someone to teach you machining would get real expensive, real fast. But, after years of neglect, a lot of community colleges have restarted, or upgraded their machining programs, and for a dedicated person, with some aptitude, one could learn enough to be dangerous in a couple of years of schooling.

I helped a few community colleges get their programs up to snuff, and some of them are producing some fairly capable entry level machinists now. I've even hired a few. Anyway, I think that would be a good place to look if you want to learn something of machining.

[lwold]

for me, the nearest classes are about 65 miles away. that gets difficult when trying to balance that sort of commute 2x to 4x a week, and having to take classes at their pace. i don't doubt that there's a lot i could learn there (especially starting from zero), i'm just trying to figure something out for my specific case.

[kcstott]

kcstott. i did see your website and the services mentioned, but thought they might be more for someone who already has the machinery (or already knows what specific machinery they want). for someone in my position (no tools, no experience) would that mean training at your home shop? that would be something i could work with. and also, thanks for posting all the additional info (like the kuhnhausen manuals).

Well I wasn't going to show up at someone's place and teach them to run Harbor freight junk. Yes it is in my shop on real full size machines with plenty of support tooling and metrology equipment to pass for a real shop. And a German Arsehole to show you how it's done.

I figured I'd rather offer up something similar to a guitar lesson style of doing things. Figure out what you need and take it from there a few hours at a time

[milotrain]

1. $30 an hour for training is a steal. Hell it's cheaper than getting a dog trainer. If this is available to you by distance go now.
2. 65miles away is a bit of a haul, but consider the Summer NRA course that Lassen offers. I know a few guys who have done a "gunsmithing vacation". I've heard but have no confirmation that each one week course is $800, so that's $20/hr and you have to bring your own tools.

Why aren't you in Kcstott's garage right now?

[kcstott]

Let's be clear here.
I'm not offering gunsmithing classes. I'm offering machine specific training to get you up and running with a machine tool. Teach you to safely run it and leave the garage with all your fingers still attached.

I would also do set up specific operations.
I.e. Finding center of your work piece, Centering a hole, Print reading, Squaring a block, cutter and tool selection,
Then they can apply what they have learned to what ever project they want.

Every time I open my mouth that I do this some mall ninja comes out of the wood work thinking he found a place to machine his 80%'s
That ain't happening either.
I've got lathe projects and mill projects that put full use of the machine into play. Those projects the student can keep, but they will not be anything gun related.

Really what I'm trying to offer is more of a how to operate this machine or that machine. Not a "become a machinist overnight" which is what a lot of people seem to think it is.

Again with the guitar lesson structure, if you go and take a one hour lesson per week are you going to be jimmi hendrix in a year or two??? Hell no, but you will know how to play better and have a good solid fondation to build on,

Same goes here, you are not going to be a machinist in a few years time let alone a master, I've been doing this for 25 years and in the tool making rhelm I'm just past a rookie and can be trusted to do my job and not crash a machine, 20 years of machinist work then another 10-20 years of tool making then you can consider yourself a top dog and possibly a master.

[KurdledCheese]

Pardon my ignorance, but how hard is it to make your own barrel for an AR?

Say if I had a lathe, end mill, pipe threader and all the necessary tools, can't I go buy any sort of steel pipe or solid core of the desired length and make my own barrel?

I was thinking, I would go out and buy a solid core or steel tube of the length I want, but out of an aerospace stainless steel such as Inconel 625, and make an indestructible barrel that will last ten of thousands of rounds.

From a Mechanical Engineering Perspective these are the order of concerns:

1. Materials
2. Bore diameter, rifling, chamber
3. Profiling, threading, Figuring out how it will fit to another firearm
4. Heat treating for increased durability and corrosion resistance?
5. Potential for selling to others? Would customers trust some no-name start-up (No offense) Joe in his garage selling them "Indestructable" Barrels? Should they?

Materials are expensive not to mention there are countless. Each material has a different elastic modulus and inherent resistance to exploding. Chamber reamers and rifling cutters (can't remember what they are called) are expensive and only useful for a handful of barrels before they'd wear out or be ineffective in making perfectly dimensioned items. Specialized tools, heat treating items consistently, reading about pressure and whether or not you'll blow barrels due to an excessively skinny countour, etc.

Not that it's impossible, but it just seems impractical unless you're planning on making a business out of it and you're fairly confident your product will speak for itself and not kill anyone due to an under-researched designer who thought making his own barrels sounded like fun.

Research, research, research. Even if you had everything and were capable of doing it, it still might not mean you "should."

[AAR]

Before you do it, consider taking a Materials Science class.

[saki302]

I know a handful of EXCELLENT gunsmiths, and not one could make a decent barrel from a blank cylinder of steel.

Turning a barrel from a pre-made blank is possible, even easy with a lathe and chamber reamer.. Threading it with a pipe threader?!?!?!

Pass the beer and popcorn

[milotrain]

Thanks for the clarification kcstott. Still a hell of a deal if someone wants to take the first steps of machining. Being largely self taught I can say with authority that learning from an actual machinist is worth more than you could ever calculate. You'll spend more than $30 an hour buying the wrong tools and watching YouTube videos that tell you the wrong things.

[kcstott]

Thanks for the clarification kcstott. Still a hell of a deal if someone wants to take the first steps of machining. Being largely self taught I can say with authority that learning from an actual machinist is worth more than you could ever calculate. You'll spend more than $30 an hour buying the wrong tools and watching YouTube videos that tell you the wrong things.

Yeah but everyone want all the experience now!!! Been doing this for 25 years and I'm still learning.