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[Ronin2]

Thank you for posting all of those bios but I have seen them already. You obviously don't know much about Falcon if you aren't aware of their real world experience as contractors overseas. If you have read any of my posts on the topic you would know that I prefer Alias Training and ITTS to Falcon, TFTT, or FTA. I am not interested in a credential/bio contest but the instructors at Alias and ITTS have more impressive/extensive backgrounds than those that you posted.

I choose Falcon over TFTT and FTA because I learned more while training with Falcon. The instructors (Voodoo and Hollywood) were better teachers and and I liked their teaching styles better. It is not a personal attack on your beloved TFTT and FTA. If you have seen any of my posts about TFTT and FTA you would see that I gave them favorable reviews and did not recommend against them. They are just not my first choice in training, but neither is Falcon.

One of my complaints about FTA is that Bill Murphy is barely involved in the training. He has a cadre of unknowns with unknown backgrounds. They do an ok job but they are not my favorite. I also feel weird being taught a topic by someone (unknown instructors cadre) who has less real world experience in that topic than I do, especially when they give some questionable advice. I have also seen range mishaps at FTA. An inexperienced shooter in an "Advanced" shotgun class shot 00 buck at 100 yards when we were supposed to be shooting slugs. It's only our vehicles parked parallel to the shooting lane, no big deal huh. Someone also shot the hell out of a port a potty at 100 or 200 yards in the "Advanced" carbine class. Using your standards, should I never train there again? I trained at FTA in 2012/13-Advanced Pistol Low-Light, Advanced Carbine, and Advanced Shotgun.

My complaint about TFTT is that Max Joseph has his own set of safety rules and looks at some industry standard LE/Mil special operations techniques as safety violations. The Navy SEALS and Air Marshals are not the only ones who conduct reloads in the shooters box/work space/whatever you want to call it-high ready and it is not a safety violation to do so. I trained at TFTT in 2012-Tactical Pistol 1 and 2 (passed both quals on first try).

Thanks for the clarification and a couple valid points made like Murphy being absent more often than not these days. I had to go to the Surefire Institute web site to get his resume.

You obviously don't know much about Falcon if you aren't aware of their real world experience as contractors overseas

Since they do not list any such work on their website, how was I to know about it and it begs the qestion, why is it not there.... IMHO when such nebulous claims are made conversationally but never put into writing there is always a "reason".

As for overseas contractors in general, I remember when all that was going on and saw many of the people trying to get such work without prior military shooter/door kicker experience and as a result,I place far less value on "civilian overseas contract work" that you do. The reason I have no idea Clearly the "names' at Falcon do as well since they list no specific training schools or overseas details what so ever. A friend who was one of the training cadre at TFTT for many years ended up the training director at Triple Canopy for a while and I was shocked at the stories he told of the "civilian contractor" types trying to get qualified to go overseas. while I cant say that the Falcons "operators" were some of the civilian morons hired into the sandbox as private contractors, if that is your "only real world qualification" that hardly makes one an "operator" much less an "operators instructor" as they seem to bill themselves.

As for your opinion on the "work space/shooters box" opinion, I guess I would disagree for the following reasons:

1) Most everyone else teaching or agency using that technique, primarily does so BECAUSE some members of the SeAL teams use it who are taught that along with other methods. The SeALs operate in a very different environment, outside CONUS in high threat hostile environments.

2)The Air Marshals need to have weapons manipulation SOP's that work in their environment...IE engaging targets over seat backs and keeping muzzles clear of those seat backs and away from innocent people and away from the risk of a round discharging into a floor that contains vital electronic and hydraulic connections.

3) To me it makes perfect sense both in a lone CQB situation to keep the muzzle away from my head/face so no one can easily push it into my face/head either to try and make the weapon discharge or as a blunt force weapon. I prefer to keep the muzzle oriented towards the threat area at all times.

4) I think the popularity of the "work space" technique more the result of the military and LEA's going to the top competitors at USPSA and IDPA for training and enhancement of shooting skills. Does a competition driven method transfer well to the lethal threat environment? I guess its all personal preference.

My complaint about TFTT is that Max Joseph has his own set of safety rules and looks at some industry standard LE/Mil special operations techniques as safety violations. The Navy SEALS and Air Marshals are not the only ones who conduct reloads in the shooters box/work space/whatever you want to call it-high ready and it is not a safety violation to do so. I trained at TFTT in 2012-Tactical Pistol 1 and 2 (passed both quals on first try).

Maybe we could get together with a few more motivated and interested Calgunners and see what Sierra Element is all about. There is always more to learn. In fact it might be interesting to see if we can get a critical mass of CalGuns members to go out and negotiate private classes with a variety of schools around the state/region....:cool2

It should be noted that Max IS truely a member of that industry and as such, he does have an impact on what the industry is doing. Teaching or doing something "just because" the Seals, Air Marshals or USPSA national champions do it is not a thought out and rational process. You may disgree with Max or the Seals but both have their reasons. I have been in TFTT classes attended by active duty SeAL team members and they complied with the school SOP while there. When in Rome I guess....

[Jack's Smirking Revenge]

Ronin,

I never claimed to put any value on overseas contract work. I merely explained that instructors at Falcon have real world experience in a combat zone as contractors.

I think you have an over simplified view of the high ready reload. You stated, "Teaching or doing something "just because" the Seals, Air Marshals or USPSA national champions do it is not a thought out and rational process." Do you really believe that these techniques were adopted by so many agencies without any more thought than that?

I forgot to address some things in my earlier post. You dismissed CA POST instructor certification and NRA LE Division instructor certification when you mocked the credentials of the instructors at Falcon. Did you notice that many of the items in the TFTT instructor biographies were CA POST instructor certifications and the Wisconsin equivalent? Did you know that is part of Bill Murphy's background as well? Bill Murphy and the Falcon instructors listed their NRA instructor number on their training certificates as well. Should they remove those items from their biographies since they aren't worth anything as far as you are concerned, or are you ok with a double standard?

Are you aware of Max Joseph's involvement in high threat executive protection? I am not aware that he did a better job than the instructors at Falcon but you certainly gave him the benefit of the doubt.

Your preferred instructors even listed hall of fame induction, instructional topics (Edged Weapons, Defensive Tactics, Officer Survival), and Advanced Officer School as qualifications. FYI, all POST peace officers in California have to complete Perishable Skills training on a 2 year cycle. This is commonly completed during "Advanced Officer School." Is that an instructor qualification?

I don't write these things to take away from anybody's accomplishments. I just want you to look at the information in their biographies and be fair when you mock people you don't know. It doesn't bother me, but since you are so critical I wanted to know your rationale.

[eyesfromafar]

I know this is an old thread but I know the guys from Sierra Element from when I was in the Corps and just recently took a class with them. Real world experience, safety, great knowledge, fun and well worth the money. I would defiantly recommend to the experienced shooter/operator and someone just getting into tactical shooting.