IDPA/IPSC/GSSF Rules on Downsizing Grips

[meyerlemony]

So I've officially got my own Glock. A Gen 4 34. Very nice, and I've had the trigger done by Glockworx and am VERY happy with their work.

There is a catch. I still can't really reach the gosh darn trigger. It is close...maybe an 1/8 to a 1/4 of an inch, but it is enough to where I have to break my grip and reset for the first shot. I don't find this a problem except where I am going for speed...

There is a simple fix. Have Glockworx shave off 1/8 to 1/4" off of the frame / grip area to make my hand seat in deeper, allowing me to reach the trigger. BUT if I do that, it throws me into weird, really competitive divisions in competitions that I'm just not ready for as a new-ish competitive shooter.

I know that IDPA can/might grant exceptions for female shooters, but I'm not sure on this one. I sent off an email to them to check. GSSF's response was "no way, if you do that, you're thrown into the open division."

Now that us girls are showing up more and more in the shooting sports, and most manufacturers aren't really making "competition" guns (things with 5" barrels and nice triggers) to fit smaller hands...should we rethink this? Specifically ergonomic alterations made only for the purpose of getting us to a neutral grip position to match our competitors with bigger hands?

If not, we're essentially handicapping a potential market for new competitors. I, personally, will get over it and keep shooting, but it is a bit of a handicap, especially for GSSF where there is NO Glock suitable for those matches where I can reach the trigger.

I'm just thinking out loud here, but I feel like modifications to allow an even playing field should be permitted. How do you police that? I have no idea. Maybe it is something like "if your hands measure less than "X" from the tip of your trigger finger to the junction between thumb and index finger, you are permitted to shave "Y" amount of material off of your gun's frame."

I'd be interested to hear from more experienced shooters on this one.

[USPSA GM]

If you have a grip reduction done for IDPA you will be restricted to ESP for a Glock 34. In USPSA you would be restricted to either Open, Limited, or L-10. Their response will be that you should buy a gun that fits your hand or develop the skills to deal with it. There are other guns that have a shorter reach such as the S&W M&P with the small backstrap and the right trigger job. The trigger can be moved rearward on the Glock but you would have to have someone who knows how redo the trigger job.

[PM720]

Yeah, if your hand fits in THIS box you get to choose from THIS list of modifications! Naa, I don't think that one will fly with IDPA and probably not GSSF either.

Were you able to reach the stock trigger? Is this the Glockworx trigger a full aftermarket like the ZEV or just modded stock parts? Usually they shorten up the pull a bit with some of the mods. I am assuming you are not using any of the grip inserts right? Just wanna make sure you didn't miss anything.

FYI, if there are any external trigger mods you may already be in ESP and Umlimited. Even some of the internal mods like a non-Glock connector or lighter springs can be an issue in GSSF although I have never heard of anyone getting inspected for that stuff.

Scott

[meyerlemony]

I'm totally aware of which divisions it would pop me into. What I had GlockWorx do was the "IDPA SSP legal" version of the modifications - just the internals. No visible external modifications. They brought the trigger back as far as they could, but like I said, I'm about 1/8 to 1/4 inch short.

I totally understand the "get over it" sentiment, guys, I really do...HOWEVER...IDPA already offers exceptions for holsters, sights...especially for women. Ostensibly, the purpose of the holster exceptions is to allow for differently shaped bodies. How would this be any different? (All hypothetical, obviously)

As far as buying a gun to fit your hand - sure, done! My M&P works, sort of. But for GSSF...it has to be a Glock...and they don't make a gun with a trigger I can reach.

I'm sure there are videos of 12-15 year old girls competing. There are women competing at upper levels. But there aren't THAT many women in the upper levels...is it possible this trigger reach thing acts as a handicap? I don't know. Maybe those 12-15 year olds have big hands. Certainly my grandmother had a reach bigger than an octave (sorry, musician, still measure hand size in how many notes you can cover on a piano).

Tape a couple of pencils or wood dowels to your grip one day, make it so your finger doesn't quite reach the trigger, and see if your speed and/or accuracy suffers. I'd bet the answer would be yes.

Again, just thinking out loud here. If the spirit of most of these "rules" is to have people shoot guns they way they would shoot them in a defensive situation, why would they prohibit modifications to make the thing fit your hand as well as possible?

[USPSA GM]

Good luck with trying to understand IDPA rules.

[9mmepiphany]

Good luck with trying to understand IDPA rules.

It's not that hard.

If it doesn't fit into SSP (Production) or CDP (Single Stack), it falls into ESP...for folks who like to tinker with their guns

[KahrGuy9]

Good luck with trying to understand IDPA rules.

Yea, hard to believe Wilson, the once great ISPC shooter, let it get so out of hand.... Someone might actually beleive its about real carry guns with real carry ammo and therefore practical and tactical and useful for self defense.



meyerlemon, IPSC is for those Canadian Hosers and European Posers. Here in the good ol USA we shoot USPSA.

[meyerlemony]

Yea, hard to believe Wilson, the once great ISPC shooter, let it get so out of hand.... Someone might actually beleive its about real carry guns with real carry ammo and therefore practical and tactical and useful for self defense.



meyerlemon, IPSC is for those Canadian Hosers and European Posers. Here in the good ol USA we shoot USPSA.

Oops, now I know! I told y'all I'm newish

[meyerlemony]

IDPA offers sights exemptions for women?

I've seen them, yes. There is an article here that talks about indeterminate eye dominance in females, and that's the basis for the exception. I've seen IDPA allow exceptions, just like the holster exception for women.

That's why I'm asking the question. All those things being true, why wouldn't a grip size reduction be a permissible exception within "the spirit of the IDPA rules?"

[KahrGuy9]

Oops, now I know! I told y'all I'm newish

[himurax13]

Well I hate to admit this but I have small girly hands and the thing I hate the most about glocks is the position and shape of the Magazine release. I always have to break my grip, even if I switch it over to the opposite side.

If you cannot reach the trigger without any back straps then you must have freakishly small hands. If this is a concern to you, then get Robar style grip reduction and then play in the Enhanced Service Pistol division. Trust me, the Stock Service Pistol division usually has way more competition in it so it will not handicap you in the least. The only other option I can suggest is try the Glock 19. The grips are a wee bit smaller but it fits my hand a little better than the longer small frame glocks.

I see you also live in the SFV, hit me up some time and I can show you a variety of what pistols I use for competition. I usually set up all my rigs for left handed Ayshun women, haha.

[meyerlemony]

Yeah...so that's kind of like saying, "sorry you've got this handicap, we have this exception, but you won't really be ranked, and clubs aren't required to let you shoot..."

I'm competitive. VERY competitive. If it isn't for competition, it doesn't have a point, as far as I'm concerned.

My thinking is that we should do everything we can to get more female shooters into the sport. Step one might be to step back and say, "huh, we have body-type exceptions for holsters and belts, maybe OTHER women's body parts are be grounds for an exception, too?"

Think of vaulting in gymnastics. Same apparatus, but for women it is set 10 centimeters lower. That's the kind of thing I'm talking about.

[himurax13]

Hmm, you seem to misunderstand. You can't modify the grips in SSP but you can in ESP. If you are really intent on competing, just modify the grips and play in ESP. Personally I would rather use a gun that fits me better such as a CZ75 or a 1911 and that is the reason why I play in the ESP division. That, and the ESP division usually has less competition in it, haha.

[meyerlemony]

Hmm, you seem to misunderstand. You can't modify the grips in SSP but you can in ESP. If you are really intent on competing, just modify the grips and play in ESP. Personally I would rather use a gun that fits me better such as a CZ75 or a 1911 and that is the reason why I play in the ESP division. That, and the ESP division usually has less competition in it, haha.

Yes, that makes sense for IDPA. For GSSF...not so much. Aren't those Open / Unlimited classes filled with guys I'll never be able to compete with?

[meyerlemony]

Well I hate to admit this but I have small girly hands and the thing I hate the most about glocks is the position and shape of the Magazine release. I always have to break my grip, even if I switch it over to the opposite side.

If you cannot reach the trigger without any back straps then you must have freakishly small hands. If this is a concern to you, then get Robar style grip reduction and then play in the Enhanced Service Pistol division. Trust me, the Stock Service Pistol division usually has way more competition in it so it will not handicap you in the least. The only other option I can suggest is try the Glock 19. The grips are a wee bit smaller but it fits my hand a little better than the longer small frame glocks.

I see you also live in the SFV, hit me up some time and I can show you a variety of what pistols I use for competition. I usually set up all my rigs for left handed Ayshun women, haha.

HA! Cool, thanks. Yep, tiny hands. Less than an octave reach made jazz band...challenging But I got it done.