Would you more readily attend a firearm class if ALL was provided for one price?

[Matt P]

What would be the interest from members here if a class was provided say in carbine, that offered the rifle, ammo and related gear for one price?
(1) Rifle Smith M&P 15-22 and magazines/Ambi controls
(1) Equipped with some form of sight enhancement along with BUIS
(1) VTAC sling
(1) Ammo 300 or so rounds. Students could provide more if they wanted to shoot more.
(1) Eye and electronic ear if needed.

Class would offer primary steel targets for more enjoyment. Instruction would be focused on introducing clients to responsible firearm use and safety. In addition it would cover technique with the carbine, sling use, practical zeroing, and various positional shooting. Distances back to 50 yards. Outdoor range.

Price range of $150-$175.

All day or half day.

I am trying to get a sense if investing more into equipment to loan clients would translate into more interest in attending training. This way it would be very easy for individuals to attend. Additionally this may help a client determine his own unique needs to set up his own equipment based on formal instruction.

Wouldn't you be more inclined to go to a driving school and drive their equipment vs use your own. Not the greatest analogy but possibly one interested clients could consider.

I would limit this class type to only .22 use.

I am aware of the limitations of .22 vs centerfire rifles. This concept is more about making it easy to attend, have fun, shoot steel, and be challenged in running the rifle.

This would be a class concept I would be offering in my area. I understand those of you who have attended a great deal of training would not be interested. My focus is to get firearm owners out and discovering enjoyment and safety from structured training. In addition they may learn about methods to enhance their own practice sessions, or interest in shooting safely more.

So, would you be interested in this above concept?
Any suggestions on expanding on this concept to help encourage more interest?

I could do this concept with handguns too. Provide a double action semi auto, holsters/mag pouch, ammo and steel. Just substitute handgun in .22 for carbine.

Would that make you more interested?

Thanks very much in advance for any and all input.

[Sofatactical]

I think people have a connection to their own guns, AR's especially they customize them with all kinds of crap. The same with handguns to a lesser degree. The only time I have seen what you describe is at a NRA basic safety course.

[SuperSet]

Sofa makes a really good point.

[Matt P]

Yes they do, and thank you for your response.

I would also offer would I be inclined to go to a driving school and drive their equipment vs use my own. Not the greatest analogy but possibly one interested clients could consider.

There would be challenge also in all the students using the same gear. I could offer competitions during the day.

I maybe up against what you posted, only one doing this is the NRA basic safety. If there were more schools providing this would it make it more popular and get firearm owners more excited over ownership.
The biggest thing I am up against is overwhelmingly most gun owners see no need for formal instruction.
Many of you in this thread area have attended formal instruction.

Again, thank you for your input.

I wonder if this was posted in the other forum sections would it draw more clients to be interested.

[ZombieTactics]

...
The biggest thing I am up against is overwhelmingly most gun owners see no need for formal instruction. ...

Sad but true.

[Ronin2]

Yes they do, and thank you for your response.

I would also offer would I be inclined to go to a driving school and drive their equipment vs use my own. Not the greatest analogy but possibly one interested clients could consider.

There would be challenge also in all the students using the same gear. I could offer competitions during the day.

I maybe up against what you posted, only one doing this is the NRA basic safety. If there were more schools providing this would it make it more popular and get firearm owners more excited over ownership.
The biggest thing I am up against is overwhelmingly most gun ownoers see no need for formal instruction.
Many of you in this thread area have attended formal instruction.

Again, thank you for your input.

I wonder if this was posted in the other forum sections would it draw more clients to be interested.

I'm not sure how big a market you would have for this... People wanting to come shoot someone else's weapons. You would probably limit yourself to just the absolute new shooter who does not own their own rifle and has NO familiarity with weapons or their nomenclature. i would question if the potential market could justify the return on investment to buy and maintain all the equipment given the price point you are looking at providing the class at. Also, this approach would make for a very challenging class as an instructor, particularly if your goal is some kind of competition at the end of the block of instruction. Also don't forget the increased liability of "providing everything", should something that you provided be the source of injury or death.

What you are up against is the nature of people... They buy the gun or car or boat first and then seek training for what they got themselves into... If they seek training at all. There lies the problem with all the gun control laws here in California...they force many people who would have no interest in owning a firearm to buy one "while they can get one" and bring it into their homes. Because they are not firearms people, "they don't know what they don't know" which includes the need for training beyond watching TV and movies....sad but very true I suspect.

The irony is that the gun grabbers, hell bent on saving us all from ourselves with our guns.... Actually do more to put guns in untrained hands, usually with no secure storage to protect the weapons from burglary.... And the band plays on....

[hermosabeach]

Many ranges offer Gear Rental and ammo for the rentals... I don;t think that a lack of gear keeps people from training...

[Matt P]

Competition can mean many things. Could be no more then who can be the most accurate at 25 yards off hand for say 5-10 rounds. The comp part would be structured with maintaining safety based on the class tempo.
I have insurance through NRA already for this range I use. My concern would not be additional liability issues. If I run an unsafe range I already create liability without providing firearms.
Thank you for your insight.

I want to attract student/clients who have not attended training before. I offer classes already that allow for client owned firearm use. Putting on formal instruction is nothing new to me.

Thank you for the considerations.

[IPSICK]

Sounds like a bargain depending on the level of training. Good concept with rifle but I am skeptical of using rimfire for pistol training. Recoil between AR centerfire and rimfire is negligible considering how ARs are handled but centerfire vs rimfire handgun is a different beast.

[c.j.]

You might pitch it as a good choice of class to take before making a purchase. I know a few of my local instructors who include firearm and ammunition for those who don't have anything.

BUT, please don't be like one class I took with the instructor shaking his head sadly at the 9mm I brought ("You should have taking my course before buying something") as being a poor choice since, in his opinion, the ultimate self defense firearm is a 7 shot .38 revolver.

[SuperSet]

Just from my observations .. outside of a select few, choosing a career as a firearms instructor is a tough road to hoe.

[GM_77]

I know ITTS has loaners to provide for the beginner class. I know of other local outfits that also have loaner weapons in stock for beginners. But their expansion in customer base had nothing to do with expansion of their inventory but more to do with their advertising technique.

Another things is I think people are buying guns for the first time a lot more than before. So lots of new folks already have a firearm. Lastly I would wager that there are more folks that have a firearm that would like training than there are folks w/o one that would like training. If I were running a business I would concentrate on the former market as they have already demonstrated they got money to burn or are willing to use their money for that hobby.

One thing along the lines of what you stated is you could provide ammo at a discounted for the class. That would probably attract more people since ammo is harder to get.

[Matt P]

Thank you for the well thought out responses.

Sometimes a career selects you. I am fortunate to have been doing this a little while.

This post is nothing more then an effort to see if providing everything and having each student have the same set up would cause more interest in formal instruction attendance.

I came from a background of the shortest training class I attended was a 3 day event. I have found in my area it is difficult near impossible to get clients to want to attend even 2 days. So I created new lesson plans based on single days. Even allowing freedom in clients own use of firearms has not translated into consistent interest. Remember my pool of interested clients may be smaller then your own area.
Not necessary trying to go after those who attend training regular, or at least once a year.
Looking at more a client with a buddy who may be interested. Parents with a teenager or adult wanting to get them some instruction. A firearm owner wanting to explore training and its value.
I provide loaner guns as it is for those in need already.

This is a class concept with all provided and allowing certain freedoms because they are all the same.

Thanks.

[ElDub1950]

There would be challenge also in all the students using the same gear. I could offer competitions during the day.

The biggest thing I am up against is overwhelmingly most gun owners see no need for formal instruction.

A couple of thoughts on the above ..
I kind of think that as soon as you include 'competition' in the introductory class description you'll scare away most of the people you want to attract to that class. People who just want to try it out don't want to be shown how bad they are when just about all they know is they know nothing.

Although too many people don't think they need formal instruction, I think a lot of people are hesitant to commit to a full day training class at $175-$200.

So, I can see at least 3 distinct levels of classes:
1. An intro class, all equip provided (.22s), training as you described, 1/2 day, <$100 - Goal - fun, peak their interest and encourage Class 2 or 3

2. An AR intro class (for those who completed the above), all equip, slightly advance version of #1, 1/2 day, <$100 Goal - fun, build confidence to decide to purchase their own and ecourage #3 or standard training class.
((This is a class I would take. I've been shooting handguns for a few years, rimfire rifles, 223 bolt action from the bench etc, and I've rented ARs a couple of times and splattered some lead downrange but without some coaching it didn't mean much. A half day training for less that 100 bucks, with no other investment would be of interest.))

3. An AR class for new or lesser experienced owners, focus on brief individual skills analysis & coaching, then fun drills to show what they can learn in the standard class. 1/2 day, again <$100 - Goal - analysis & coaching can show the value of ongoing training. (You'd have to give this a fancy name so the tacticool noobs didn't think is a baby beginner's class )

Just kind of thinking out loud. But this might meet the goal of bringing in noobs, exposing folks to training, and 'advertising' for future classes.

[Matt P]

A couple of thoughts on the above ..
I kind of think that as soon as you include 'competition' in the introductory class description you'll scare away most of the people you want to attract to that class. People who just want to try it out don't want to be shown how bad they are when just about all they know is they know nothing.

Although too many people don't think they need formal instruction, I think a lot of people are hesitant to commit to a full day training class at $175-$200.

So, I can see at least 3 distinct levels of classes:
1. An intro class, all equip provided (.22s), training as you described, 1/2 day, <$100 - Goal - fun, peak their interest and encourage Class 2 or 3

2. An AR intro class (for those who completed the above), all equip, slightly advance version of #1, 1/2 day, <$100 Goal - fun, build confidence to decide to purchase their own and ecourage #3 or standard training class.
((This is a class I would take. I've been shooting handguns for a few years, rimfire rifles, 223 bolt action from the bench etc, and I've rented ARs a couple of times and splattered some lead downrange but without some coaching it didn't mean much. A half day training for less that 100 bucks, with no other investment would be of interest.))

3. An AR class for new or lesser experienced owners, focus on brief individual skills analysis & coaching, then fun drills to show what they can learn in the standard class. 1/2 day, again <$100 - Goal - analysis & coaching can show the value of ongoing training. (You'd have to give this a fancy name so the tacticool noobs didn't think is a baby beginner's class )

Just kind of thinking out loud. But this might meet the goal of bringing in noobs, exposing folks to training, and 'advertising' for future classes.

Thank you for that. Another excellent offering.
As for the comp mention. I do that now in classes with students who choose to participate betting a buck. There are other forms I offer. This is nothing serious and only encouraged to offer for some a limited thrill of competition.
Its nothing I promote in advance of classes currently.

At the min. all of your suggestions will help me in defining how to offer this type of proposed class.

Its helpful to get opinion on what might encourage you to attend if offered this format.

Cool....