Just Back from Front Sight

[diverwcw]

I just got back from the two day Tactical Shotgun class at Front Sight. As always, I had a great time. Most people there were running Remingtons and Mossbergs. I was next to a guy running a rental 590A1 and I got a new respect for that shotgun. It was a rental firearm with thousands of rounds through it and it kept on ticking. Maybe I see a future purchase.

A couple of guys were running magazine fed Saigas (semi auto) and a host of problems with them. Another guy was running some bullpup design they called a UTAS (or something like that) and nothing but problems with it.

The bottom line was Beretta, Benelli, Remington and Mossberg is the way to go.

As a side note, I was very unappreciative of a comment by their Director of Operations when we mustered in the classroom at the beginnig of the first day. They were selling raffle tickets to win a tricked out 1911 that was, of course, not California legal. It seems he couldn't resist making his little editorial comment about, "YOU GUYS from California elected people who came up with a list....."

It is apparent that California gun owners are standing on their own. We can expect no help from anybody else.

[ZombieTactics]

Someone should remind him that there are more gun owners in California than there are people in Nevada.

People who aren't on the front lines should shaddup and get in the fight.

[SuperSet]

A couple of guys were running magazine fed Saigas (semi auto) and a host of problems with them. Another guy was running some bullpup design they called a UTAS (or something like that) and nothing but problems with it.

The bottom line was Beretta, Benelli, Remington and Mossberg is the way to go.

Saigas need a lot of work before you can get them to run reliably IME. I see them on the competition circuit but never in a shotgun class. The ones that work have been tuned quite a bit.

[Murphy650]

Your post couldn't be more timely diverwcw, I've been looking for a new HD shotgun and for some reason just couldn't get excited about the 590a1 as solid as I've heard they are. My eye was starting to wander, but for the purpose I have in mind a gun that just works every time without fail should be a top factor. Thanks for renewing my resolve to stick with what works and not get too fancy when it comes to HD.

[btell]

What equipment would you recommend for the shotgun class?

[diverwcw]

equipment needed

What equipment would you recommend for the shotgun class?

Obvliously a good shotgun, my money is on pump. The Mossies and Remington semi autos run nice but it seems most of the semis are sensitive to some ammo.

There is a section where they want you to get into a kneeling and prone position so elbow and knee pads are recommended.

For the two day they recommend 100 rounds of bird shot and 100 rounds of buck shot. Nearly all the shooting I did was with bird shot. Save the buck shot for home or self defense. You will end up putting a little over 200 rounds downrange.

We shot rifled slugs for accuracy and they tear a very impressive hole in a target. We also shot them at steel targets and you can tell by the authoritative "clang" when you hit it.

The thing that will help the most is to buy a shotshell holder like so

http://tinyurl.com/cxwoc87

This particular one is sold by Cabela's but just about every gun store carries them for bargain basement prices.

[rmatt]

my moss 930 is very sensitive to ammo. annoyingly so. it better be heavy and high velocity or it's a one shot gun. my moss 500 pump ran for a decade with no cleaning and lots of shooting perfectly.

i know a couple people who've taken the fs shotgun class and they enjoyed it.

how's your shoulder?

[hermosabeach]

The shotgun courses use to have a different type of student than HG and Rifle... it seemed that you had significantly fewer new students and more front sight members in the classes... so the drills, BS during breaks and other things felt a bit different... in a good way

The 590 A1 with the steel trigger guard is a very robust platform... Everything can break.. or will break given enough use, but buying a firearm with solid parts from day 1 seems, at least to me, be worth the extra $$$$

as far as the CA comments..... As Front Sight has a knack for raising money, to have a raffle for an item not allowed in California seems silly... as do the comments....

Unless they took the pistol in as a trade on a membership, why they would raffle off a firearm that is not CA approved seems strange...

[hermosabeach]

OP-
How was the instruction?
How many people in the class?
How many DGs?

[diverwcw]

Two day course

OP-
How was the instruction?
How many people in the class?
How many DGs?

Instruction was EXCELLENT! One of the instructors had a Browning A5 he had modified from a sporting gun to a tactical gun and it looked great. He said he could return it to its 1953 configuration in about an hour so all was not lost.

There were 31 people in the class

There is no test in the 2 day class. Only in the skill builder and four day class.

To answer another question, my shoulder is fine, absolutey NO soreness. They teach you how to manage the recoil, i.e. pull the butt tight into your shoulder and lean into it. It really makes a difference.

The class is highly recommended! This is the second time I have taken the two day shotgun course, I will likely take it another time or two then take the two day skill builder. I have a certificate or two if anybody is interested. PM me for details.

[Best sale]

As a side note, I was very unappreciative of a comment by their Director of Operations when we mustered in the classroom at the beginnig of the first day. They were selling raffle tickets to win a tricked out 1911 that was, of course, not California legal. It seems he couldn't resist making his little editorial comment about, "YOU GUYS from California elected people who came up with a list....."

It is apparent that California gun owners are standing on their own. We can expect no help from anybody else.

I won't be that sensitive about that, it is nothing but a no pun intended Joke among fellow gunners. I have heard that over & over and just joke along.
We in Kalifornia even joke among ourselves about attending tactical rifle course & performing tactical reloads with bullet button & 10rnds mag.
plus we have SSE incase you win the raffle. Btw glad you enjoy ur training.

[Tripper]

Thanks for the report
I'll likely take my middle son in June, leaning towards the 2 day
I'll have a 590, he will have a 500, and I'll take a spare 500. It's pistol grip only but I can easily throw a stock on it
Speaking of which
Anybody there use those recoil reduction stocks with the hydraulic piston?



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[Tophog]

I won't be that sensitive about that, it is nothing but a no pun intended Joke among fellow gunners. I have heard that over & over and just joke along.
We in Kalifornia even joke among ourselves about attending tactical rifle course & performing tactical reloads with bullet button & 10rnds mag.
plus we have SSE incase you win the raffle. Btw glad you enjoy ur training.

I agree. Most of us enthusiasts here in Nevada are very aware of what happens to our neighbors to the west.

Being an expatriate myself, I have many friends, some even Calguns members, who are unfortunately stuck in the Gulag.

-

If that instructor gave a hoot, he would point out that the FS corporation is headquartered in CA.

For that matter, if Piazza dumped a decent percentage of his take from just the CA ponzi scheme suckers into the CA political scene, maybe you all would have more clout in Sacramento!

-

(I'm a sucker for his scheme myself. Got a few Diamonds for sale that are barely worth the email they're printed on!)

At least I was able to sell the XD9 and 2 Front Sight FMK pistols to recoup some of my investment!

[beanz2]

I just got back from the two day Tactical Shotgun class at Front Sight. ...

Hahaha, we must have rubbed elbows and not know it. I was there too.

A couple of guys were running magazine fed Saigas (semi auto) and a host of problems with them. Another guy was running some bullpup design they called a UTAS (or something like that) and nothing but problems with it.

Would you tell me what issues did the Saiga 12s have? I am guessing it's the adjustable gas system. If and when I get to shotguns, I most likely will bring my VEPR 12 and pass up my Mossberg 590, just because I'm too used to the AK platform and my Mossy does not come with a rear sight.

As a side note, I was very unappreciative of a comment by their Director of Operations when we mustered in the classroom at the beginnig of the first day. They were selling raffle tickets to win a tricked out 1911 that was, of course, not California legal. It seems he couldn't resist making his little editorial comment about, "YOU GUYS from California elected people who came up with a list....."

As someone else mentioned above, they are dumb not to mention that there are legal ways to get non-rostered handguns into CA. As California represented at least 25-30% of FS students in attendance, they immediately lost that many potential buyers for the raffle tickets. My local FFL would be able to accept that gun and SSE it in no time.

Actually when you think about it, the raffle wasn't too bad. $20 for a ticket and 150 tickets total were to be sold. That chance of winning a ($1500? $2000?) 1911 wasn't too bad. Only if it wasn't for my self-imposed caliber moratorium, I'd buy a ticket too.

But then, I'll have another chance next week of buying a ticket, still.... Nahhh LOL

[BT JUSTICE]

This may be the wrong thread for this, but, what are the hidden fees in joining front sight? For the last two months or so, ive been getting the emails from frontsight promoting the "last chance" lifetime membership for $500 instead of $10k. It sounds liie a good deal, but before i spring for two memberships, what else will i have to pay for? I get that food and lodging are not included, nor are ammo or gun rental. If we get the memberships, what else will we have to spend money on before we can show up and take the classes?