Where should I start? (handgun)

[GettoPhilosopher]

Ok, so I've always been a rifle guy, but I'm finally forcing myself to learn/use a handgun. I'm looking for a good training class.

I've also got a 6 month old daughter, a low paying job, and a lot of bills. I probably can't afford a private lesson, and I really can't afford to waste time/$$$ taking 8 random classes and hoping for the best.

I'm good with weapons manipulation (and manipulating machines in general), I'm a safe shooter, but my handgun accuracy leaves quite a bit to be desired. As I've been trying to improve, I've found fundamental flaws i was making (for instance, using too small of a backstrap on my M&P, gripping incorrectly, etc) that have noticeably impacted my shooting.

So here I am shopping for classes. Basically my question boils down to this. Entry level/NRA pistol course descriptions make it sound like I'm going to sit there for 4 hours being told "This is the muzzle! This is the slide catch! Make sure to only point it down range!", and may be a waste of my time. On the other hand, I've taken classes before where I was underqualified....spending 4-8 hours sucking, hating myself for sucking, and not being able to keep up isn't what I'm looking for either.

So, for you trainers or alum out there....where do *you* think I should fall? Should I take an entry level course? Or should I pick up a defensive/tactical pistol course? (For instance, FalconOps offers Entry Level Pistol vs. Pistol Manipulation 1)

Be honest please. Thanks.

[Kempfer]

I suggest: http://www.stcrispian.com/

If you look at his schedule the hours for Handgun 101/202 are about 4 hours so it works for those that are time crunched. At a rate of around $18/hr, you can not do better than that if you weigh his experience (+20yrs Marine, some LEO) in the field and as a instructor. I always think he is the best place to start. If you are interested in honing the fundamentals of shooting I would advise that you take classes from someone that has experience in competition. This caught my eye, you might think about that, slightly more expensive but in your area of interest I think.

Thats what I would do, I wouldn't worry about a tactical defensive class. I'd stick to affordable classes that are taught by People with REAL accomplishments that don't charge like freaking $28/hr or more.

[The Virus]

Stan is GTG. Sound like you are in need of a fundamental restart on pistol work.
Look at some of Ron Avery's videos to get some great points.
Also look at TAC-1 there pistol 1 will give u some good basics.

[GettoPhilosopher]

"Fundamental restart" implies I've had training. My handgun training was "pick up handgun, start shooting, google handgun shooting tips, correct mistakes that I notice, shoot some more".

Ok, so Stan's G2G. Thanks. I just *really* didn't want to/can't afford to spend $100 + range fees + ammo to sit in a room and listen to someone point out which part is the barrel and how to eject a magazine for 4 hours, y'know? I can safely handle/manipulate/strip/clean/work on a handgun just fine, it's just the shooting part I'm crap at.

[Ricky-Ray]

https://www.civilianarmstraining.com

They hold classes at Burro. Normally the level 1 defensive pistol class is $140, BUT you can go to the gun show and buy a class voucher for $40. When you go to the class you give them the voucher and $20 and your class is paid in full. You will also have to pay $20 range fee for Burro also. Of course ammo, food, water, etc is on you too.

[Stan08]

Pistol 101: Introduction to the Defensive Pistol
*No prerequisites

Topics Covered, Courses of Fire and Training Objectives:
4 Weapons safety rules, safety brief and casualty evacuation plan.
Mission of the Pistol
Weapons condition of pistols
Nomenclature of the pistol
Fundamentals of pistol marksmanship
Firing positions; Isosceles, kneeling, dual kneeling
Loading/unloading
Press checks
Misfire procedures with practical application
Magazine change with practical application
Weapons maintenance: cleaning and lubricating
Engage target from the standing
Engage target from the supported and unsupported kneeling
Engage target from the supported and unsupported dual kneeling
Engage target from the standing and kneeling
Engage target from the standing with type 1 misfire
Engage and close with target/s
Buddy reload drill

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Pistol 202: Intermediate Defensive Pistol Techniques
*Prerequisite: Pistol 101 or equivalent from another institution with skills test (see Pistol 101).

Topics covered and Courses of Fire:
Please see website.

[ginrai357]

Another vote for Stan Lee of http://www.stcrispian.com/ Great in the field instruction that's low cost/high value training. Took 4 classes with him already and planning for more.

[gschoelles]

I don't think defensive pistol is a good place for a novice to start. You really need to get the fundamentals out of the way and have a good understanding of gun safety and handling.

I'm not pointing at the OP, bu I have taught many "Beginner" classes and I would not want to see 99.9% of those students practicing advanced techniques anywhere near me.

NRA courses would get the fundamentals out of the way, but usually don't include enough range time. http://ftatv.com/basic-recreational-pistol is taught by NRA certified instructors, but is stepped up a bit in handling and shooting.

[GettoPhilosopher]

I don't think defensive pistol is a good place for a novice to start. You really need to get the fundamentals out of the way and have a good understanding of gun safety and handling.

I'm not pointing at the OP, bu I have taught many "Beginner" classes and I would not want to see 99.9% of those students practicing advanced techniques anywhere near me.

NRA courses would get the fundamentals out of the way, but usually don't include enough range time. http://ftatv.com/basic-recreational-pistol is taught by NRA certified instructors, but is stepped up a bit in handling and shooting.

Fair enough, which is why I pointed out that I have had years of practice and instruction in gun safety and handling. It's the accuracy I'm having problems with. But I appreciate the advice.

[Lugiahua]

As long as OP can safely load, shoot, unload (and chamber check) without compromise his muzzle awareness, I think he is ready for defense/tactical classes.

[GM_77]

Fair enough, which is why I pointed out that I have had years of practice and instruction in gun safety and handling. It's the accuracy I'm having problems with. But I appreciate the advice.

What is your level of accuracy now and what do you strive for? I should have asked this earlier instead, you sound more advanced than I originally thought. You might know all of what is already taught, in terms of fundamentals, in 101 type courses.

[GettoPhilosopher]

What is your level of accuracy now and what do you strive for? I should have asked this earlier instead, you sound more advanced than I originally thought. You might know all of what is already taught, in terms of fundamentals, in 101 type courses.

Y'know, I haven't shot at paper targets in a while. I think I'm going to hit Insight tonight and try it out. I've been minute-of-man (more or less) out at 10-15y. Lately I've been shooting at Angeles, and their steel is 35y, which I know is pretty far. I hit a few per mag on that.

The thing about me is I've always been self-taught in just about everything. Computers, airsoft back in college, guns, cars, etc. That's great in that I'm a good listener, I research everything, and I'm good at figuring stuff out. But oftentimes it also means I may have gaps in what I know. And the problem with gaps is *you don't know about them*. A bad habit I know I have can be worked on. A failure I don't know exists can't.

Good example: When I got my M&P9 a couple months ago, I tried all the backstraps and found the small to be the most comfortable. Shot mediocre with it. A few weeks later, on a whim, I googled "which grips are right for me?" and found a nice explanation about how your hand is supposed to fit, having your fingernails line up with your thumbnail, the most comfortable isn't necessarily the best fit, etc. I find that I have to use the large grip to get my fingernails to line up, and even then it's still a little small. As the article suggested, I try a pointability test; I instinctively point the (unloaded, in a safe direction! I chamber checked it multiple times before pointing it anywhere) gun at a clock about 15 yards away in my house, then look at the sights to find I'm actually lined up perfectly on target. Derp! I've been using the wrong grip this whole time! Wish I had known that a month ago!

I've had a couple moments like this (don't teacup, thumbs forward feels weird but points way better for me, etc), so between that and my accuracy I know there are most probably fundamentals issues with how I shoot, and I want to find & correct those. But it's not like I can't rack the slide without sticking it under my armpit while muzzling the whole firing line or something, y'know?

[GM_77]

Sounds like Stan's course would be a good starting point for where you are at. I'm not 100% sure you will get all that you are looking for but I think it will be good enough to get a layout of the land in terms of what one would expect to do with a handgun.

For handgun shooting techniques there are some books out there that focus on proper grip, stance and so forth. When it comes to shooting I think the competition books refine everything more than a self defense book. If you haven't discovered it already Brian Enos forum is a good resource for shooting.