Identifying your gaps.

[joelogic]

The responses can be from any shooting discipline but I will focus on multigun.

Background: I have been shooting multigun for several years but mostly for fun. I played sports in high school but I really didn't care for them so I never paid attention to winning.

Premise: I am really enjoying multigun and I want to increase my competitiveness.

Current Plan: Shoot better, faster. To get to the current level I am at, I have taken a couple of shooting classes, read the forums, and shot matches. Basically, I have made it this far just from trying hard.

Issue: The last two multigun matches I have finished 4th but I am trailing the leader by at least 20-30% of the match points. I could close in on 3rd place by just a few percentage points, though.

4/29/12
1st 482.3456 100.000%
2nd 408.3041 84.650%
3rd 341.6973 70.841%
4th ME 332.3253 68.898%

4/22/12
1st 466.6015 100.000%
2nd 445.7517 95.532%
3rd 416.8920 89.346%
4th Me 380.2813 81.500%


Question: How do you identify and close the gap to the top?
Do I just keep trying to shoot better, faster?
Hammer the gas pedal?
Find a good luck charm?
Anything I could practice at home?


Edit: After watching yesterday's video, I definitely need to tighten up on pistol, better read stages description (Missed bonuses), and know your zero for your ammo.

[HighLander51]

Edit: After watching yesterday's video, I definitely need to tighten up on pistol, better read stages description (Missed bonuses), and know your zero for your ammo.

It's all about the points. You have to earn the points. Like you say, know your zero and understand the stage descriptions, but those are fundamentals, you have been doing 3 gun long enough to know that. Sounds like you should take a competition 3 gun shooting class from Taran, Jojo, or Michael.

Practice, of course, but only if it's good practice. Like for Steel Challenge most of the top guys will run 6,000 rounds before the match.

Try posting your question over on BrianEnos.com. That forum is all competition shooters.

[sargenv]

Most of the top guys have burned up a LOT of ammo.. I know that a few ppl have maybe taken a class or two, but nothing is better than high level real world experience at the bigger matches and being squadded with some of those top shooters.. Classes are great, but actually shooting with and watching how they do it is likely a bit better.. It is knowing your gear, knowing your ammo, and reliability/functioning 100% plays a big part.

[HighLander51]

joelogic, what 3 gun matches are you talking about? and how many 3 guns have you actually shot? Big difference between X3 at Piru and West End 3 gun. Pala and Piru at the best, but they are both still practice for the big matches, Superstition, Nationals, Rocky Mountain, etc. Like we have already said, you are going to burn alot of ammo to finish in the top 5%. X3 usually has top 3 gunners, so a distant finish there is not the same as a local level 3 gun.

[MossbergMan]

Joelogic, you are attempting to self diagnose your problem(s). You need to seek out an instructor or one of the better shooters to discuss and evaluate your abilities.
A shooter or instructor with a critical eye can improve your shooting faster and cheaper than you poking around in the dark, perhaps reinforcing bad habits. You need competition specific training. A self defense oriented class is worthwhile for limitied cross over information. Competitive techniques are different in more than few areas from defensive tactics.
Here's where most shooters lose time: Reloads (especially shotgun), Movement and Target engagement order, Transitions between weapons systems. As Sargenv posted shooting/squading with the "big guns" would help too. Watching their stage planning is a big plus.
Good luck and keep shooting.

[HighLander51]

Try to hook up with Gose and TMC, I think they are NorCal.

[SuperSet]

Hey man, you already mentioned the most effective tool - video. Post match, you can review to note deficiencies and devise a plan to work on them. Even better, if you squad with a super squad member, they'll get a chance to see you shoot and offer advice. From my experience, if you're operating at 75% of the winner, you have the fundamentals, technical and game-related, so it comes down to limiting your mistakes. I just finished training with Frank Proctor and one of the things he does for his students is that he critiques their match videos.
And of course, train for competition and with someone scoring in those upper tiers. Honestly, i didnt learn that much from Taran's class but building a relationship with him opened the doorway for me to seek his advice when I'm at a major match.

[joelogic]

My question is more about how to be a better competitor not just a better shooter. This may be a simple question but like I said its something I have never done before. My biggest gain has come from exercising. I have been running 2 miles a day, 5 days a week for that last 4 weeks. Now I am at 14min miles with a goal of 12min miles.

joelogic, what 3 gun matches are you talking about? and how many 3 guns have you actually shot? Big difference between X3 at Piru and West End 3 gun. Pala and Piru at the best, but they are both still practice for the big matches, Superstition, Nationals, Rocky Mountain, etc. Like we have already said, you are going to burn alot of ammo to finish in the top 5%. X3 usually has top 3 gunners, so a distant finish there is not the same as a local level 3 gun.

Chabot has a "3 gun" match every month, USI every other month, Richmond and Sac have a couple a year. So I would say 12-15 multigun matches and 30 Chabot "3 Gun" matches. National level matches are much too expensive for me so my local matches are my matches. I am not really concerned with finishing in the top 5% but more so being within 10% of the match points of the leader group.

Joelogic, you are attempting to self diagnose your problem(s). You need to seek out an instructor or one of the better shooters to discuss and evaluate your abilities.
A shooter or instructor with a critical eye can improve your shooting faster and cheaper than you poking around in the dark, perhaps reinforcing bad habits. You need competition specific training. A self defense oriented class is worthwhile for limitied cross over information. Competitive techniques are different in more than few areas from defensive tactics.
Here's where most shooters lose time: Reloads (especially shotgun), Movement and Target engagement order, Transitions between weapons systems. As Sargenv posted shooting/squading with the "big guns" would help too. Watching their stage planning is a big plus.
Good luck and keep shooting.

I cant self diagnose? I use WebMD whenever I am not feeling well.
You make a good point but I am a little put off my instructors lately. Usually when they see me shoot they just say good job and move on to someone else that needs more help. Plus great competitors do not always make great instructors. But I will seek out an instructor that will be critical in competition based training. Just from the outside looking in, it seems the "Big Gun" squads are full of "Big Guns" and their fans and groupies.

Try to hook up with Gose and TMC, I think they are NorCal.

4/29 Match, TMC took 2nd place. Gose has been MIA due to other commitments, but I don't want to speak for him. I will try and build some new friendships.

Hey man, you already mentioned the most effective tool - video. Post match, you can review to note deficiencies and devise a plan to work on them. Even better, if you squad with a super squad member, they'll get a chance to see you shoot and offer advice. From my experience, if you're operating at 75% of the winner, you have the fundamentals, technical and game-related, so it comes down to limiting your mistakes. I just finished training with Frank Proctor and one of the things he does for his students is that he critiques their match videos.
And of course, train for competition and with someone scoring in those upper tiers. Honestly, i didnt learn that much from Taran's class but building a relationship with him opened the doorway for me to seek his advice when I'm at a major match.

Thanks for the tip, I will definitely take notes to minimize my mistakes.

I will focus on keeping my gear consistent because I keep chasing fads.
I will practice with one pistol and not switch back and forth match to match.
I will only use one rifle round recipe. I zeroed for my 62gr load but then I have been shooting my blaster 55gr load.

Thanks everyone.

[speedrrracer]

Larry is right -- self diagnosis is ridiculously error prone because of cognitive biases.

But I will seek out an instructor that will be critical in competition based training.

This is very wise of you!

If you've had bad experiences with some instructors then get better ones. I can certainly recommend Larry himself if you're down in Southern California.

No instructor worth a crap will say, "Good job" and then leave you alone with nothing to work on or take away from the class. I've never seen such a thing in the dozen or so lessons / classes I've taken. There's always room to improve.

Get an instructor who actually competes, since they'll not only be able to make you a better shooter but also a better gamer, which is obviously critical to winning a game. Tell that instructor your expectations are to come away with a prioritized list of areas on which to focus, along with specific training recommendations which will result in improvement in those areas.

You're right that not all great competitors are great instructors, and not all great instructors are good competitors! Read this forum, posters like Superset put up reviews and you can get great insights into instructors who might be very effective for you...

Lastly - post up your experiences with instructors, too -- I'll be reading them for sure

[SuperSet]

Here are some crib notes from the Taran class. Maybe it helps somebody:

* To be truly great at 3-gun, you must shoot a lot of pistol matches. Taran believes that you gain more points from a pistol stage than a shotgun/long range stage. Proportionally, if you add 15s for a non-engaged target, it's going to hurt you a lot more on a 30-40s pistol stage than a 180s+ long range stage.
* Draw faster by moving your left hand ahead of your right hand. If you learn your draw from military or tactical school, your left hand tends to go to your stomach first instead of pushing it out front and meeting your dominant hand.
* Better to shoot slow and hit steel than pickup shots. Taran calls this the 'bang-ding-bang-ding-bang-bang-bang-transition-bang-ding'. He says that the mistake most really fast shooters make is to not slow down on steel.

Shotgun
* Take big steps to cover a lot of ground while reloading the shotgun. Taran prefers this to finishing your load and then sprinting. If you watch any of Taran's videos, his shotgun reload time is good but not blazing. He makes it up by not missing and transitioning quickly to the next target. In Taran's words, you should be afraid to miss a shotgun target.
* If your slug POI is off, consider bending the barrel until it is on. Slug accuracy is very important and should be able to hit a 10" circle from 25-100 yds. He's never had a Benelli barrel shoot straight from the factory so bending it is very common.
* WalMart bulk ammo will work fine for winning championships. He's still shooting the cheap 7 1/2 Federal birdshot from WalMart.

Rifle:
* A rifle must be capable of 1MOA to be competitive in 3-gun. You'll need to shoot match ammo to achieve this.
* Develop a feel and practice for shooting offhand rifle 50-200y. It helps if you have a light rifle. Frank Proctor had some ideas about this in that you shift focus from an aggressive rifle stance and grip to more relaxed and letting recoil happen, since follow-up shots are less important.
* A light, fast handling rifle is easier to manage and shoot offhand. This is the reason he shoots 17" fluted rifle-gas barrels.