CA Carbine Training courses questions?

[MacOtac]

I am on Grey Groups web page and looking at all their up & coming training that will be taking place at Pardo in Chino. They have plenty of course coming up from Pistol to Carbine to both. All require you to have a carbine and 30rd magazines.

My question is to people out here tha might have taken one of these course, can you do it without getting arrested?

I wrote to GreyGroup to inquire how this will work and there response was this...

"Hello Mark, you are completely able to attend this course with your high capacity magazines etc. this class falls under the seven day grace period for competitive shooting events and organized training classes. It happens in every class. Please feel free to sign up for the class. If you have any further questions please don't hesitate to ask, I'm always glad to help. Thank you.

Paul Hotaling
Grey Group Training, LLC

Does this seem correct? Or will I be looking at a felony?

I know some say Mil/Leo only but there are some that do not say that. I am a DOS contractor with a CAC card.....

Feedback WELCOME!

[Corbin Dallas]

I would ask for a link or verbage of the grace period.

I have not heard of this before.

[joelogic]

30rd mag are legal to possess and you can use them in a featureless gun. I think they are referring to the AW sanctioned competition exemption.

If you don't own any 30rd mags, use 10rd mags. You will get plenty of reloading experience. Any good instructor will be able to adapt.

[MacOtac]

Yes I know they are legal to own (30rd'ers) and use in a featureless gun. The course is described to use regular standard setup carbines with 30rd'ers. There is a lot of courses like that. The guy from GreyGroup makes it sound like there is an exemption.... What if I was from Nevada wanting to take this course or from else where... It seems like you are exempt. And they do a lot of courses here in Cali and I am pretty sure they are aware of our laws here.

[MacOtac]

I mean they have a Viker's course Carbine and Pistol.... It does state military/LEO but I have a CAC card because I am a DOS contractor. Can I attend this course fully loaded?

[SuperSet]

Hi, there was some discussion about this last year in this thread. Hope this helps:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=227952

[MacOtac]

Hi, there was some discussion about this last year in this thread. Hope this helps:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=227952

It did shed some light.... Correct me if I am wrong. SO my understanding is that these courses only allow people with registered AW or out of state visitors to be able to shoot with a fully operational AR (No BB and 30 round mags). Residence of California do not fall under this and will be eligible for a felony if caught with an operational AR.

The only way to attend this course as a resident is to go featureless, BB (10rds), or have a registered AW?

[SuperSet]

That is the way I understand it as well. One clarification.. for out of state visitors, you can't legally import fully-assembled 30 round magazines.

[MacOtac]

I would have to read the high capacity regulations but as with the AW laws it says that it does not adhere to the class or competition thingy and that they are OK to import. Probably the same for mags.

[GM_77]

It did shed some light.... Correct me if I am wrong. SO my understanding is that these courses only allow people with registered AW or out of state visitors to be able to shoot with a fully operational AR (No BB and 30 round mags). Residence of California do not fall under this and will be eligible for a felony if caught with an operational AR.

The only way to attend this course as a resident is to go featureless, BB (10rds), or have a registered AW?

As a California resident here are the following options:
1) RAW
2) BB
3) Featureless

I have seen each of those in all the carbine courses I took from GreyGroup and everyone did just fine. The guys with the BB's did not fall behind as far as I could tell.

The only recomendation I have for anyone attending with a 10rnd BB is to bring something like a MagLula and an ammo can up to the firing line because you will be reloading your mags more.

[GunInstructor.com]

I have maintained California state permits for machine guns, short-barreled rifles/shotguns, and assault weapons, for 20 years. I have dealt with California DOJ firearms law enforcement. It required lawyers and money to convince them to drop the matter, and that was for a technical violation of the regulations. And, I was a California sworn peace officer at the time. They DO NOT give you a break, and you CANNOT expect them to.

If a course promoter is alleging that a training course meets the state law definition of a sanctioned sporting competition, which would exempt the temporary importation of an assault weapon, I would ask for the promoter to provide a substantial cash bond that can be used for legal defense costs as a result of attending the course. I would also seek the advice of a competent legal firm, such as the ones who advertise here at Calguns. Otherwise, attend with your bullet button and ten round mags. Anything else is foolhardy and taking the word of someone who has a conflict of interest in advising you about such matters.

[MacOtac]

Its all good I spoke to him again a clarified that I am a Cali resident and this was his response.

"Hello Sir, unfortunately since you are a California resident you have to follow the CA AWB. The seven day grace period is only for guys who are coming in from out of state. I know that sucks.

Paul"

So if you are a non resident and would like to attend a carbine course in California you fall under the organized training/competition exempt and have a 7 day grace period to do what you have to with your AW.

Just mean that law biding citizens of California get shafted by a stupid law.

[GunInstructor.com]

For Calguns members who live in other states, here is the California law that applies to people from other states bringing assault weapons into California. I have underlined the parts that cannot be ignored. Seems clear to me that training courses are not covered by this law, and if someone claims so, they are treading on VERY thin ice. Without an opinion letter from the DOJ that specifically includes training courses, I would not rely on any verbals from anyone. Maybe a letter from the county district attorney where the training occurs will work, but you better be a member in good standing of the DA's immediate family...

Penal Code 30665. Sections 30600, 30605, and 30610 shall not apply to the
possession and importation of an assault weapon or a .50 BMG rifle
into this state by a nonresident if ALL of the following conditions
are met:
(a) The person is attending or going directly to or coming
directly from an organized competitive match or league competition
that involves the use of an assault weapon or a .50 BMG rifle.
(b) The competition or match is conducted on the premises of one
of the following:
(1) A target range that holds a regulatory or business license for
the purpose of practicing shooting at that target range.
(2) A target range of a public or private club or organization
that is organized for the purpose of practicing shooting at targets.
(c) The match or competition is sponsored by, conducted under the
auspices of, or approved by, a law enforcement agency or a nationally
or state recognized entity that fosters proficiency in, or promotes
education about, firearms.
(d) The assault weapon or .50 BMG rifle is transported in
accordance with Section 25610 or Article 3 (commencing with Section
25505) of Chapter 2 of Division 5.
(e) The person is 18 years of age or over and is not in a class of
persons prohibited from possessing firearms by virtue of Chapter 2
(commencing with Section 29800) or Chapter 3 (commencing with Section
29900) of Division 9 of this code or Section 8100 or 8103 of the
Welfare and Institutions Code.

[Ammo68]

Seems like there are more and more schools that we say anything to get people into their classes since their numbers are geting less and less. I also want to HOPE that some schools are up front and honest put you really have to do your homework regarding what school to invest your money with and who not to. Thanks for starting a good thread !!

[BBB114]

required 30 round mags

Personally, I would be cautious on any school "REQUIRING" 30 round magazines for their course. As said before, any good instructor should be able to work around the 10 round mag issue. I design 90% of my courses with no more than 10 rounds in the magazine....most of the time even less. This requires the student to get proficient in magazine changes.

I think its more important to hit your target and be able to manipulate your weapon than to just blast away ammo.......but I know it doesnt sound sexy.

Boyan