Need some help with USPSA scoring

[LloydXmas250]

I'm trying to learn how it works but it's confusing to me when I read through their rules.

Can anyone give me a basic rundown for scoring. I understand paper targets have zones of value: A, C, or D. Is a miss a penalty? I know the penalty for hitting a no shoot is 10 pts. I also understand the points you earn in a stage divided by your time but then they seem to do something else with your score. Also, what is the Stage %? Guy on top always gets 100% I noticed.

One more thing. How do the divisions work? Last Saturday at Norco IPSC, which I think uses USPSAs rules, I was shooting production which I was told was limited to 10 round magazines. Yet looking at the scores, a couple of guys in my group shooting hi-cap glocks were still in the Production group. Also, I was told a 1911 that a lady was using with 10 rounders was in the limited division but she showed up in Single Stack. Are these mistakes or was I just misinformed? Thanks.

[Fjold]

A miss is -10 points and if I remember correctly a failure to engage (shoot at) a target is -10 points also.

Stage percentage is your score compared to the top shooter on that stage. The top shooter gets 100%.

You can shoot a 10 round gun in Limited 10 class or Production class. You should have shot in Limited 10 but that would include others with modified guns (who shot 10 round magazines)

[bentnbroken]

USPSA scoring

hit factor is the determining # for scoring.

the winner of a stage has the highest HIT FACTOR. points scored / time = hit factor so 144 / 14.32 = 10.0559 so if this is top hit factor it is awarded 150.0 or 100% of stage points.

so on this stage my score of 144/27.43 = 5.2497 hit factor or a stage % of 52.21% my hit factor divided by the stage winning hit factor so I get 52.21% of the available points 150.0x52.21% = stage points of 78.3078

So this is the formula from 1st through every shooter on the stage.

penalties of course are subtracted from your score.

so my score sheet looked like this
class division pts pen time hit fact stg pts stg%
Eric A. D prd 144 0 27.43 5.2497 78.3078 52.21%


Hope this helps, as far as the other part of your question, dont really have a explination, probably a little of both.

[HighLander51]

Last Saturday at Norco IPSC, which I think uses USPSAs rules, I was shooting production which I was told was limited to 10 round magazines. Yet looking at the scores, a couple of guys in my group shooting hi-cap glocks were still in the Production group. Also, I was told a 1911 that a lady was using with 10 rounders was in the limited division but she showed up in Single Stack. Are these mistakes or was I just misinformed?

Yes, but not both. Production is restricted to 10 round magazines, however, all scoring is minor, no need to shoot a major 40S&W or .45acp in production. Yes you could run your high capacity magazines in Production as long as you only load 10 in the stick (in the game we call magazines sticks). Your 1911 Lady was running Limited 10 with 10 round sticks, but Single Stack with flush sticks.

Misses are 5 each, procedurals and no shoots 10 each. C's and D's cost twice as many points down in minor as in major (except Production).

Norco IPSC is USPSA, IPSC is the world body, USPSA is the USA division. You are somewhat confused because many times they use IPSC targets, we call them ameba's (protozoa life forms), no head like USPSA targets, hence no head shots. The reason they roll this way is many of the top guns will go to the World Shoot, IPSC rules, not USPSA rules.

Like already explained, its hit factor, points scored by time shot, thats why you see shooters winning with misses, their hit factor is high. Even though the motto is Diligentia, Vis, Celeritas (DVC) meaning accuracy, power, and speed, it really means SPEED, SPEED and more SPEED.

Don't hurt your head over all this, just make your hits, try to improve, and shoot fast and have fun. In the end, you are only going against yourself. Don't chase the Grand Masters, you will only end up even worse off.

It's only your first match, if you didn't finish last, you did good.

Mike Dalton, inventor of the Steel Challenge, and who Brian Enos called a 'God' with a handgun, finished next to last on his first match ever. Course he fixed that over the next couple of years. Google him up. Rome wasn't built in a day, not even the Great and widely feared Tarannosaurus (Taran Butler) did not start at the top.

[LloydXmas250]

Thanks for the clarifications. I'm not trying to be the greatest. I'm just a bit curious.

Regarding the Glocks with hi-caps, they were in fact loading them full. But they were still scored in Production. Was this some slip up in the scoring or some loophole?

Is 150 the total points for a stage? So the winner will get 100% of 150 or 150 pts. 2nd may get 95% or 135 pts? Something like that? Forgive me if I'm just not making the connection but what determines the stage %? I understand first gets 100% but what determines the % of the rest?

[LloydXmas250]

Alright looking over the results again I see that each stage can be a different amount. Is that amount equal to perfect hits? Meaning all Alpha hits? Or is each stage just awarded a specific amount ahead of time?

Still having trouble with how the figure an individual's stage %.

[HighLander51]

Regarding the Glocks with hi-caps, they were in fact loading them full. But they were still scored in Production. Was this some slip up in the scoring or some loophole?

Yes, they were cheating, 10 rounds only in Production. Is this the same squad that painted the mini popper black?

Is 150 the total points for a stage? So the winner will get 100% of 150 or 150 pts. 2nd may get 95% or 135 pts? Something like that? Forgive me if I'm just not making the connection but what determines the stage %? I understand first gets 100% but what determines the % of the rest?

That was only an example. The stage might have had 150 points total, but the shooter with the best hit factor 'Wins it all' even if they only shot 100 points.

Alright looking over the results again I see that each stage can be a different amount. Is that amount equal to perfect hits? Meaning all Alpha hits? Or is each stage just awarded a specific amount ahead of time?

If you shot all A's in any division, you get the maximum stage points, but it doesn't mean jack, because of the hit factor.

And to make it more confusing, you are not classified in any division, major or minor. Tell us what gun, and caliber, you are running, and we can figure what division you should shoot in. To be classified, you need to join the USPSA, and shoot at least 4 correct classifiers, it may take 8 or 10, the highs and lows are thrown out.

All you can do is record your hits and time to know YOUR hit factor, doesn't mean anything until the match is done.

So forget about all this stuff, just do your best.

Gun divisions can overlap. For example, I can run a G17 9mm, with 17 round mags, in Production (10 rounds), Limited 10, Limited or Open. Course I will get slaughtered in any other division than Production, because of either mag capacity or major scoring... In Limited 10, I get creamed because I am running minor, in Limited and Open I get doubled creamed because of mag capacity and major scoring, because Major 9mm can have 23+1 or 27+1 rounds to my 17+1 minor.

[LloydXmas250]

I used a 10 rnd Beretta PX4 in 9mm. The guys with Glocks were using either G17s or G19s. One was brand new like me so I really doubt he was trying to cheat. Maybe just didn't know. They really seemed to put us new folks in categories since I wasn't sure. Maybe they assumed he was running 10 rnd mags. Not sure. The group I was in was the group that runs the event.

So basically Production is my best bet since I'm limited to 10 rnds and a 9mm right now. I'm getting a 1911 soon. Maybe single stack would be more up my alley. They can only use 8 round mags correct?

[uscbigdawg]

I'm trying to learn how it works but it's confusing to me when I read through their rules.

Can anyone give me a basic rundown for scoring. I understand paper targets have zones of value: A, C, or D. Is a miss a penalty? I know the penalty for hitting a no shoot is 10 pts. I also understand the points you earn in a stage divided by your time but then they seem to do something else with your score. Also, what is the Stage %? Guy on top always gets 100% I noticed.

For major power factor scoring (power factor > 165), the zones are scored 5,4,4,2 (A,B,C,D). Major power factor is available for Open, Limited, Limited-10, Revolver and Singlestack divisions. Minor power factor scoring the same zones are scored 5,3,3,1. Production is 100% scored minor and every other division, minor is available either by choice of the shooter or because their ammo failed to make major, but still made minor = 125. As an aside, if your ammo does not make major, your score is not counted for the match and you're simply shooting for fun.

Stage points. Take the total available points on a stage and divide it by the time it took you to engage generating the hit factor. The highest hit factor is then used to establish the 100% marker for the stage and that person garners 100% of available points. So, if it's a 150 point stage, the person with the highest hit factor gets 150 stage points. Say the next shooter's hit factor is 90% of the stage winner, he gets 135 stage points. Stage percentage is just that, the percentage of the highest hit factor.

One more thing. How do the divisions work? Last Saturday at Norco IPSC, which I think uses USPSAs rules, I was shooting production which I was told was limited to 10 round magazines. Yet looking at the scores, a couple of guys in my group shooting hi-cap glocks were still in the Production group. Also, I was told a 1911 that a lady was using with 10 rounders was in the limited division but she showed up in Single Stack. Are these mistakes or was I just misinformed? Thanks.

Production in USPSA is limited to 10+1. While you are allowed to use hi-cap mags in Production, your magazines are to not be loaded with more than 10 rounds. If so, welcome to Open division. A lot of folks say, "oh crap...well, I guess I'm in Limited". No. You are in Open division for violating a Production division rule.

Singlestack is a little bit gray. Why? Well...depending on the caliber of choice, competitors are allowed to have different magazine capacities, each with their own advantage. If a competitor chooses to shoot under major power factor scoring in Singlestack, they are limited to 8 rounds in the magazine. The easiest designator for this is folks with 1911's chambered either in 40 S&W or 45 ACP. If a competitor chooses the ammo advantage of say a 1911 in 38 Super or 9mm, you are allowed 10 rounds, but again, are shooting minor power factor scoring (translation = you must shoot more accurately as your points are dropping like a rock for every B, C & D you fire).

Note: Both Production and Singlestack divisions require the use of "concealment"-type gear and all must be placed behind the hip bone of the competitor. Violation = Open.

Limited-10 division. It's a bit of a hybrid. You have Limited division which is esentially a hi-cap 1911 with race holsters and mag pouches with no comps, no dots and a magazine length limit of 140mm in doublestack, 170mm in a singlestack mag. Limited-10 allows the same gun modifications and allowed equipment as limited, but has the basic magazine restrictions of singlestack.

So...to answer your questions, people do cheat and it unfortunately happens in every sport. Why it happens at the club level is beyond me because if your ego needs that much stimulation then I'll just say you're the greatest and lets get back to shooting. Ultimately, it's up to the RO on the stage and the Rangemaster to uphold the rules of USPSA/the match. At Norco, it's self-squadded/self-RO and know for a FACT that the rules are loosely enforced to say the least. That said, it's still a great place to shoot and hopefully the lack of integrity of a few douche bags doesn't ward you away from a great sport.

Rich

[HighLander51]

I used a 10 rnd Beretta PX4 in 9mm. Than you belong in Production class.

Both Production and Singlestack divisions require the use of "concealment"-type gear and all must be placed behind the hip bone of the competitor. Violation = Open. Yes, but it doesn't really matter at the local level.

What really means is you can't use race holsters, only bucket type outside the waist band IDPA like holsters. It doesn't by any means mean actual concealment, like IDPA.

Now, even more confusing, as you can see from my videos where my kid is actually shooting from concealment and using an Inside the waistband holster, there is no rule against it! If you want to shoot what you carry, just do it.

Here is my advice, stay in Production until you are comfortable. Run a bunch of matches, then join and get classified. If you want to change guns, or gun divisions, do it after you figure out how this works.

[LloydXmas250]

Thanks for the big explanation bigdawg. Very helpful and I understand the scoring now.

Thanks Highlander. I don't have the budget to do this as much as I'd like yet but hopefully I can get some more matches in.

As for the guys with the Hi-cap mags in Production. They're both military guys, one who's competed before but still seemed fairly new. The other brand new. I got the impression that they were not cheating intentionally and it's really no big deal. When I signed up, they actually just asked what kind of gun I had and then put me in Production. Maybe they just assumed their Glocks where suited for Production. I'm not really worried about it, I was just confused. If anything, I nearly beat them with my 10 round mags so that is kind of cool. If not for one run where I didn't engage two whole targets I would have beat them. Really I'll be excited to see how I do next time against my old score. I still had a blast.

[HighLander51]

They're both military guys, one who's competed before but still seemed fairly new.

Yea, I bumped into those 2, and for sure, they were not cheating, just didn't know any better. I think they were both running G19's with hi caps, not normal.

[Gryff]

in the game we call magazines sticks

We do?

[sargenv]

Originally Posted by HighLander51
in the game we call magazines sticks

We do?

Um.. I call them all magazines unless they are the open division 170 mm magazines... those ARE called the "Big stick" magazines...

I don't call single stack 170's "Big sticks" since they only hold 10 rounds..

[HighLander51]

Gryff, yes, we do. Everyone at Norco and Prado USPSA does. Never called that when I was running the IDPA club at Apple Valley from 1997 to 2003, wouldn't be tactically proper.