thoughts from the new guy

[zombiescanlearn]

Although I've been shooting for 10 years, I just started to look into getting into competitive shooting this year. As a newbie, I normally would keep my mouth shut and "get with the program." But I'm just getting really frustrated with the sort of training being offered out there in the shooting community. So, here goes:

The reason I got into competitive shooting is that my body was getting to old to handle the rigors of training after 20 years of martial arts -- joints keep hurting, nagging injuries that won't get better.

I want to participate in training programs for competitive shooting, but why must all of them be this crazy commit 8-10 hours of your life per day for two days if you want to learn something? Those of us who have a full time carreer, a wife and young children can never participate in these.

Why hasn't someone offered a curriculum like a college course? Sign up for the program that is offered for 10 weeks, 3 hours each day for 2 or 3 days a week? That's how we do it in the martial arts community.

I think the shooting community is missing out on an entire segment of consumers who sign up for that sort of program.

Anyway, thanks for taking the time to listen to my rant and hopefully, someone with an entrepreneurial spirit and the know how figure out how to put something like this together somewhere in Orange County, Calif.

[uscbigdawg]

I would say that the reason you find long weekend courses is because of exactly what you say and that's that people will squeeze in instruction between their regular M-F work schedule.

With my students, because of the volume of information, especially for new guys, I purposely restrict the time to about 3 hours as I find that they quickly get task saturated.

If you're looking for good instruction and build a program, I know for a fact, that I can get you setup with Taran Butler who prefers to not teach longer than 5 hours a day and can do classes during the week. You will not find a better person to learn from and you will be a better shooter.

I hear where you're coming from, but ranges aren't often open after 5pm and those that are (typically indoor ranges) don't usually want to be there much after. Also, again, with the typical work week being M-F 8-5pm, the only time a lot of folks can attend a course is on a weekend and want to get a good 5-6 hours a day.

Rich

[negolien]

Range hours.. good point.

[joelogic]

Not only range hours but the closest range to me is 1 hr away. That is way too far to make multiple trips to. A shooting match can easily take 8-10 hours. Just like Golf can easily take a whole day and so can a lot of other activities. Sign in time is usually 8am and finish time is often after 3pm plus a 1 hour drive each way. I just took two days off of work to take a class granted not everyone can do that but it is part of the sport. College classes are a couple hours because of attention spans but once you put a gun in someone's hand they can focus longer.

[uscbigdawg]

I'll add though one of the biggest things about Arizona I miss is the Tuesday night steel match. 100 shooters, all steel, 4-5 stages and you're done in an hour. Open registration from 430 to like 6 or 7. There's also the Thursday night match at Ben Avery or Phoenix Rod & Gun Club. Both of these you're done in under 2 hours.

Rich

[bruceflinch]

Not only range hours but the closest range to me is 1 hr away. That is way too far to make multiple trips to. A shooting match can easily take 8-10 hours.

That's what you get for living amongst the Libtards...

Here's my take on it Zombiescanlearn. Don't be an A type personality. Do you feel you have to be the best? Nothing wrong with that, btw.

I found that after 10 years of competitive shooting I was OTH. The older I get, the better I use to be. I accept that. I just do it for fun. It's my hobby. I don't feel the need to be "really competitive".

I work, I go to school, got a wife & child. Reload my own ammo, maintain my house. Have barely enough time to crap some days. So I just go w/ the flow, & enjoy my time w/ my shooting buddys at the range.

YMMV

[zombiescanlearn]

Not only range hours but the closest range to me is 1 hr away.

I guess that's what we're missing in OC is a dynamic gun range. The Firing Line is down the street from my house, but all you can do there are handguns and rimfire rifles in a lane. All the rifle ranges and shotgun ranges are at least an hour away from me.

[zombiescanlearn]

That's what you get for living amongst the Libtards...

Here's my take on it Zombiescanlearn. Don't be an A type personality. Do you feel you have to be the best? Nothing wrong with that, btw.

I found that after 10 years of competitive shooting I was OTH. The older I get, the better I use to be. I accept that. I just do it for fun. It's my hobby. I don't feel the need to be "really competitive".

I work, I go to school, got a wife & child. Reload my own ammo, maintain my house. Have barely enough time to crap some days. So I just go w/ the flow, & enjoy my time w/ my shooting buddys at the range.

YMMV

I'm not a competitive person, but a curious one. I always want to know "how did that guy just do that???"

Combat art is my hobby and I want to learn as much as I can from taking out a hostile opponent a quarter of a mile out to rolling around on the ground.

I'm in the same boat as you. Career, wife, kids, etc. I can tell them I'll see you after lunch, but there is no way they'll go for I'm gone until tonight.

The truth of the matter is those 8 hours courses over the weekend paint a broad stroke to the science of shooting. I just want something more and I'm sure if someone built a course there will be people who are interested.

[9mmepiphany]

The best thing is to find some 1:1 instruction.

That is how I teach...in two hour blocks...and send my clients off with homework for the next session. I teach during the week as well as weekends, with the greatest limiting factor being range availability.

It is really just a matter of what you are willing to spend. 3-4 hours of 1:1 instruction is about the same as a full day in a group.

I have a client who can afford to see me 2 hours each week to work on whatever he wants...he thought it was money well spent when he finally bagged a Brown bear in Alaska last year...it was like having a cheap life coach

[bruceflinch]

I'm not a competitive person, but a curious one. I always want to know "how did that guy just do that???"

Combat art is my hobby and I want to learn as much as I can from taking out a hostile opponent a quarter of a mile out to rolling around on the ground.

I'm in the same boat as you. Career, wife, kids, etc. I can tell them I'll see you after lunch, but there is no way they'll go for I'm gone until tonight.

The truth of the matter is those 8 hours courses over the weekend paint a broad stroke to the science of shooting. I just want something more and I'm sure if someone built a course there will be people who are interested.

Good point. Curiosity can be a good motivator. Have to admit, I'd rather learn to take out a BG w/ my .308 @ 600 yds than have to roll in the dirt w/ him.

[Untamed1972]

I think another factor in addition to range time / availability is appeal to the local market. To run a multi-week class you'd have to fill the class with people from the local area who live close enough to the range to make mulitple trips feasible / cost effective.

Pretty much all of the 2-3day courses I've attended have had the majority of students (myself included) traveling a fair distance, up to several hours drive or even flying in from nearby states to attend.....and you're talking about a class of 20-30 people maybe.

So I think it is just a matter of practicality and profitability for the course presenters.

There is always private instruction as an option, but will obviously be more costly.

[Matt P]

Being an Instructor, there are many things to consider in short duration classes.
Training in martial arts can be accomplished in a number of ways. Meeting at a park, and just about anywhere else. No real issues with being in the eyes of the public.
Many shooting ranges are just further out.
I know, or doubt I could just go to the indoor range and hold a class. We have one in my area.
I feel the logistics of offering short classes can be difficult just becasue it deals with firearms, and you have wayyyy less freedom where they can be used at, in a training environment.

I feel your post is excellent, and I thank you. I am making already an effort to address students who do not want to attend 2 Day classes in my area.
I will ask my student base if they would be interested in a concept you suggest.

I would love to read what students/members would suggest in what they would consider paying for training in 2-3 hour blocks once a week. Or how long they would like in time involvement.

Great thread.

[jimmykan]

Are there training courses that focus on competition shooting techniques? I thought most were combat-oriented...

I'm sure there's plenty knowledge from the combat clinics that you could apply to shooting matches, but when I imagine a guy using one of those IPSC race holsters at those LMS courses it makes me chuckle. In my head, he's also wearing an awesome-looking sponsor jersey.

[gun fu]

Although I've been shooting for 10 years, I just started to look into getting into competitive shooting this year. As a newbie, I normally would keep my mouth shut and "get with the program." But I'm just getting really frustrated with the sort of training being offered out there in the shooting community. So, here goes:

The reason I got into competitive shooting is that my body was getting to old to handle the rigors of training after 20 years of martial arts -- joints keep hurting, nagging injuries that won't get better.

I want to participate in training programs for competitive shooting, but why must all of them be this crazy commit 8-10 hours of your life per day for two days if you want to learn something? Those of us who have a full time carreer, a wife and young children can never participate in these.

Why hasn't someone offered a curriculum like a college course? Sign up for the program that is offered for 10 weeks, 3 hours each day for 2 or 3 days a week? That's how we do it in the martial arts community.

I think the shooting community is missing out on an entire segment of consumers who sign up for that sort of program.

Anyway, thanks for taking the time to listen to my rant and hopefully, someone with an entrepreneurial spirit and the know how figure out how to put something like this together somewhere in Orange County, Calif.

Z,

I like your idea!

I also have trained in the arts and totally understand your position in offering a curriculum which has basics, techniques and application (match) over time.

Check it out! www.shootnrg.com

[zombiescanlearn]

Are there training courses that focus on competition shooting techniques? I thought most were combat-oriented...

I'm sure there's plenty knowledge from the combat clinics that you could apply to shooting matches, but when I imagine a guy using one of those IPSC race holsters at those LMS courses it makes me chuckle. In my head, he's also wearing an awesome-looking sponsor jersey.

In my wildest dream, there is someone offering a course that will cover everything about shooting. Competition, SWAT, SEAL, CQB, Delta Force, sniper, et al. Everything from tactics to techniques.

A real course that really teaches about all there is to know about the utilization of firearms in all known capcity.