Instructor/Student Question

[45R]

I was recently in a class were I witnessed the instructor rip a handgun out of a students hand during a reload (I can't be certain that the gun had one in the chamber because the slide was forward). I was in a state of disbelief after this happened.

The point he was trying to get across is that you have to have a firm hold on your gun at all times to prevent it from being taken away from you.....

I've taken a fair share of classes and never once have I witness any instructor pull a handgun away from a student.

Do you guys find this acceptable?

[checkenbach]

No. Sounds like an invitation to disaster to me, or a MAJOR case of peni$ envy. The ONLY way this would be acceptable is if there were no rounds in the chamber, or in the mag.
They should yank his (or her's) card for endangering the other students if live ammo was involved.

[armygunsmith]

No. It's unsafe and unprofessional. If training without live ammo, and making a point, I can say maybe. Someone could have been injured. I'm assuming that live ammunition was involved.

[uscbigdawg]

Definitely not acceptable. The instructor is an idiot.

Rich

[Voo]

I was recently in a class were I witnessed the instructor rip a handgun out of a students hand during a reload (I can't be certain that the gun had one in the chamber because the slide was forward). I was in a state of disbelief after this happened.

The point he was trying to get across is that you have to have a firm hold on your gun at all times to prevent it from being taken away from you.....

I've taken a fair share of classes and never once have I witness any instructor pull a handgun away from a student.

Do you guys find this acceptable?

I have a hard time imagining when this would be "appropriate". Hearing you describe what happened sounds really dangerous.

I can't understand the reasoning behind doing this either. I mean, if an instructor is going to grab my gun, it's not like I"m going to fight him off or pull a knife/secondary and stab him right? It seems like a horrible way to teach someone a lesson.

If the class wasn't training retention type drills, and the instructor simply wanted to illustrate the point 'arbitrarily'. I would definitely question their judgment.

[D-Man]

Retention drills should be done with red guns or triple checked with no ammo around real firearms. My class for weapon retention is always a separate class from a shooting class. Real dumb by that instructor based on what you are describing.

[Lancear15]

That instructor is a total douche.

[ramzar]

Any such safety violations would be enough for me to pack up and leave the class even though no refund of fees may be coming.

The other issue would be whether I'd name names as a precautionary tale to fellow students on forums.

Some schools I do not attend simply because I've seen unsafe situations from their own photos and videos like the cameraman situated next to a target that is being shot at!

[Gryff]

Not acceptable. If you are going to do **** like that, do it with a blue gun.

[Nachoman]

What class was this? I'd like to avoid it.

[45R]

Hey guys thanks for all of your input. Its pretty consistent with my feelings on the issue. Appreciate all the responses.

[Shenaniguns]

Not acceptable. If you are going to do **** like that, do it with a blue gun.

Exactly!!!

[Matt P]

Before I would jump to the conclusion that this Instructor is this or that, I feel you still you would need more information.
And even then, members here should not totally write him off for one incident, unless he has a history of unsafe practices, or those practices that may appear unsafe.
Not having been there, I can not even say if it was this or that.
The issue I see is that at the very least, he left 45R with a sense that he did something unsafe, and possibly at that time 45R stopped looking to learn.

Had this student had issues with weapon handling?
Did he seem to draw more attention for lack of safe weapon handling from the Instructor?
You say the point he was trying to make was a student should maintain firm contact on the weapon.
Do you know that because that is what he said? Is that the only reason why he did that?
What was the drill at that time you were working on?
Did he make a point of during the class about weapon retention, and the importance of maintaining a strong grip on the weapon?
Did that one issue for you completely invalidate anything, or all else that was instructed?

I feel for all of us to be outraged over an act that only one of us witnessed to be a little extreme.
That one act should not automatically wash away all that Instructor has done in the past with his efforts to help firearm owners.
And he shouldn't be measured on his qualities or what can be learned from him on just one act.

I do not know the instructor, nor is it me that 45R is talking about.
As a firearms instructor it is hard enough to get firearm owners to seek out instruction.
I want to insure as best I can that those who may be considering training, that there may be much more to what has happened.

Hopefully you have addressed your concerns with that Instructor at some point. I would hope you would before announcing his name. Give him a chance to explain what he did.
Hopefully through that you will be satisfied.
All the above just my opinion.

[Shenaniguns]

Matt, I've seen some unsafe and unprofessional acts with this instructor as well. I will back 45R at his word since he's experienced and I've trained with him multiple times and a good friend.

[Matt P]

I am not suggesting he did not see what he saw, merely making an effort to insure members do not jump to a rush judgement of the Instructor.
If this Instructor has this type of reputation, then why train with him at all?

I am not getting it I fear. Not that it is anybodys responsibility to insure Matt p gets it.

If this is common knowledge about the Instructor, why even mention it here?
It seems you both know this about him, why the need to validate he is unsafe more so?
Would it matter if anybody said otherwise about what he did?

Understand I am merely wanting to insure that as much info is presented if persons are going to label this individual as unsafe.
Not trying to suggest 45R does not have any reason to feel as he did.

Mostly, I am making an effort to treat another as I would like to be treated.