USPSA Production Division moving to 15-round mags in January

[Gryff]

Way back, there were only I think 4 divisions.

Way way back there was only one division. You ran what you thought you could win with. Technology advancement turned it into a money race, so they started breaking guns up by characteristics.

[sigstroker]

It's a problem both ways. Consolidating divisions would take it backward. Way back, there were only I think 4 divisions. Open, L, L10, and Revolver. I might be wrong on that, but for sure my 1911 was in L10. If you had a dot, you were Open. Large mags, L. Small mags, L10. Major and minor. So Glocks and 1911s shot together with the STIs. It was certainly simpler, but that wasn't fun for lots of people, and few people considered that very "level".

Way back, there was "gun".

[fish45]

It depends on how someone's attitude is when pointing gun, equipment issues out to someone at a match. If your equipment is legal in that division obviously someone shouldn't just give you a hard time because they want to.

That?s part of the point I?m making. There?s too big a focus on arbitrary rules and equipment than shooting. Some people focus too much on what other people are doing than focusing on themselves.

[fish45]

It's a problem both ways. Consolidating divisions would take it backward. Way back, there were only I think 4 divisions. Open, L, L10, and Revolver. I might be wrong on that, but for sure my 1911 was in L10. If you had a dot, you were Open. Large mags, L. Small mags, L10. Major and minor. So Glocks and 1911s shot together with the STIs. It was certainly simpler, but that wasn't fun for lots of people, and few people considered that very "level".

If that?s the case I want production optics. No extended mag advantages, no magwell?s, no modifications. Stock factory gun with optics. I?d also like revolver optics. A shotgun division too. I need more divisions for 2 reasons. I want to shoot revolver with an optic and I need more so I can win because I can?t win in another division. I?d also like limited revolver so I can be competitive with my 6 round revolvers too.

[SG29736]

That?s part of the point I?m making. There?s too big a focus on arbitrary rules and equipment than shooting. Some people focus too much on what other people are doing than focusing on themselves.

I get it. But how do you write a set of rules for a shooting game with multiple gun divisions that shooters are required to follow and not have those rules be set arbitrarily? Unless you're going to have one division with anything allowed other the safety concerns, I don't see how you'd do it. If you just want to shoot whatever you want you can set up anything to shoot. If you want to shoot a competition that is shot all around the country with rules set by an national organization there are rules to follow, even the arbitrary ones.

[Gryff]

If that?s the case I want production optics. No extended mag advantages, no magwell?s, no modifications. Stock factory gun with optics.

They had it. It was called Carry Optics. And then too many people bitched and moaned about the round capacity limit and how they couldn't have compensated guns, and so on. Now it is Open Lite. And they added Limited Optics to suck up to the Staccato crowd, so that is Open Less Lite.

[fish45]

I get it. But how do you write a set of rules for a shooting game with multiple gun divisions that shooters are required to follow and not have those rules be set arbitrarily? Unless you're going to have one division with anything allowed other the safety concerns, I don't see how you'd do it. If you just want to shoot whatever you want you can set up anything to shoot. If you want to shoot a competition that is shot all around the country with rules set by an national organization there are rules to follow, even the arbitrary ones.

To start I think we should move voting power from the BOD to the members. I think it would work to start with a base set of rules and go from there. It wouldn?t be too difficult to create proposed rule changes and have the members vote at the end of the year.

I also don?t think we should ignore how magazine ban states impact the sport. With the exception of things like single stack and revolver, which have inherently low round counts, we should adjust scoring or make a ?sub division? Instead of just making an entirely different division. But if alternate divisions are the only way to make it fair to ban states then that?s what we should do.

[fish45]

They had it. It was called Carry Optics. And then too many people bitched and moaned about the round capacity limit and how they couldn't have compensated guns, and so on. Now it is Open Lite. And they added Limited Optics to suck up to the Staccato crowd, so that is Open Less Lite.

I?m really starting to think the only opinion you think matters is yours. For easy numbers sake if 7/10 people are asking for something it?s not just people bitching and moaning?. It?s a literal majority of people. Now if it?s 1/10? that?s a different story.

When it comes to setting up the rules the naming convention is half the problem. Carry optics implies it?s a carry gun division?

[singlestack]

USPSA threw Limited Division under the bus, when creating LO Division with minor PF only! Definitely pandering.

[Gryff]

I?m really starting to think the only opinion you think matters is yours.

Not true at all. If someone else's opinion isn't stupid, it matters very much to me.