Gun recommendations

[bphage]

All, I am itching to get a new firearm and I would like to get better at pistol shooting (faster follow ups, mag transitions etc); I doubt I'll compete just because it seems hard to find competitions in the bay area. But I would like to get better with my pistol shooting skills that could directly apply to competition if I chose to do so. (good excuse for a new gun no?)

I am thinking a 1911 platform, slide cut for an RMR sight (I think I would like to co-witness), decent magwell, compensator, and ~2 lb trigger. I am thinking 9mm capable of shooting 9 major.

I don't mind building the firearm myself (actually very much enjoy those types of projects); Not to keen on spending 5k on a pistol either but I understand that an accurate gun with a good trigger doesn't = cheep.

Seems most of the recommendations are for 2011's and other frames that just aren't available in California. I have yet to see anyone serious in the competition world consider a poly gun but I am open to thoughts. I would really like a Stainless gun but as long as its steel I am G2G.

Thoughts?

[Stumpfenhammer]

You wrote that you want to get better...and then you described a 1911 with very nice/advanced accoutrements (nothing wrong with that) but I just want to point out that you don't need the latter to achieve the former.

Any good pistol would do, 1911 or G17. Asking yourself a few questions will narrow the field.

Question #1: What kind of competition would you want to shoot if you did? USPSA Production Division for example seems to still be mostly dominated by Glock 17/34 models. I just switched from a Gen 3 G17 to a P320 X-Five, but would still be fine with the G17 if the Sig hadn't fallen into my hands at a great price. Bob Vogel won Nationals with a stock G17 I believe...look him up on youtube.

Question #2: What guns do you already own? You may already own a pistol that will do the trick depending on which tricks you want to do.

Question #3: How much money do you want to spend on this? The G17 I was shooting matches with was inexpensive and required very little maintenance, 40K+ rounds later it's still as reliable as it was when I bought it. I've owned three 1911's (I built my first one) and I ran an armory full of 1911's back in the day. In my experience good ones are more expensive and all of them require more care than the plastic fantastic. My P320 X-Five also requires more care time than the G17, not much more, but enough to notice, and not everyone has time to spare. That said, if you are serious, you'll spend much more on ammunition than guns. And if you are serious and married you'll spend even more on date night to make it up to your wife for the sound of your timer going off every morning while you do your dry fire drills.

Question #4: How serious are you about concealed carry? If you carry concealed the most efficient strategy is to shoot a similar platform in competition as you carry. Compete with a G17/34, carry a G19 for instance. I'm not saying you will kill yourself or fail to save the world by doing otherwise, but it does add up to a less complex system.

If you are serious about competing and/or wanting to achieve a high level of proficiency with minimal waste of time and money, shift your focus from what to how. That is, get a shot timer, a dry fire book from Steve Anderson or Ben Stoeger, and a copy of Brian Enos' book, Practical Shooting, and start dry firing at least four days a week.

Lastly, if you want a red dot get one, I have a couple myself and will no doubt have more as my eyes change. That said, I believe that you'll get more out of learning to shoot at a high level with iron sights first, then go to a red dot. That's a hair splitting point though...dry fire is the thing that will change everything.

By the way, in the Bay Area you have an outstanding range and competition pistol club, Richmond Hot Shots. Besides the facility, awesome location, and a bunch of serious shooters, they also regularly bring in top notch guest instructors. You will get support for your goal at that club if you ask for it. https://www.richmondhotshots.com

TL;DR - Dry fire, dry fire, dry fire.

[OCEquestrian]

Question #1: What kind of competition would you want to shoot if you did?

First question the OP needs to answer before anyone can give him any meaningful advice...

[M1NM]

Getting good with a 45 will cost a lot more than getting good with a 9mm.

[BillyMays]

Cut a 1911 for an RMR and see old school 1911 guys everywhere lose their minds.

[Stumpfenhammer]

Not to keen on spending 5k on a pistol either but I understand that an accurate gun with a good trigger doesn't = cheep.

For me the Gold Standard in a pistol trigger is the 1911. That said, if you are going to put the training effort into getting proficient, you really won't notice the trigger after a relatively short period of committed dry/live fire. Same thing with a pistol's ergonomics. When I transitioned from 1911's to striker-fired polymer guns I didn't love the differences in grip angle, ergos, weight, and trigger. Fast forward to transitioning from a G17 to a Sig P320 and I didn't love the P320 and trigger compared to the Glock. Not only that but the Gen 5 Glocks (mine at least) have a much improved trigger, one that I like much better than the P320's.

If you train for real, all or most of the handgun-comparison issues people haggle about in other threads will quickly become non-issues. Your brain is wired to adapt to what it needs to adapt to assuming you put in a few more reps than the casual shooter.

For me at least I get more satisfaction out of being the guy who can crush it with a bone stock, regular-guy pistol, than being the shooter with the Gucci gear who can't figure out why they're shooting low and left. Mind you, I've been through my own Gucci phase and I wish I had spent that money on more training with great trainers, and I wish I'd spent at least half of my live fire rounds on more dry fire.

Random thoughts from a guy who has a few rounds downrange....YMMV.

[Stumpfenhammer]

Cut a 1911 for an RMR and see old school 1911 guys everywhere lose their minds.

Yes, might be worth doing for that reason alone.

[Hefledthescene]

Get a stock glock or CZ/Sig if you want metal, and put the rest into some sights and ammo for range time. Every single hobby has these threads, whether buying a $450 epiphone vs a customshop Gibson Les Paul for $5k, or photography with $400 vs $4k bodies, or cycling with lightweight racing bikes, or design (wacom tablets), or BJJ (designer Gi's).

As with any hobby, if you want to get good, get cheap, reliable gear, sign up for races/competitions/gigs to hold yourself to a training schedule, and spend the rest on training and fantastic instructors. Oh and ideally, have insane amounts of fun.

[prc77]

All, I am itching to get a new firearm and I would like to get better at pistol shooting (faster follow ups, mag transitions etc); I doubt I'll compete just because it seems hard to find competitions in the bay area. But I would like to get better with my pistol shooting skills that could directly apply to competition if I chose to do so. (good excuse for a new gun no?)

I am thinking a 1911 platform, slide cut for an RMR sight (I think I would like to co-witness), decent magwell, compensator, and ~2 lb trigger. I am thinking 9mm capable of shooting 9 major.

I don't mind building the firearm myself (actually very much enjoy those types of projects); Not to keen on spending 5k on a pistol either but I understand that an accurate gun with a good trigger doesn't = cheep.

Seems most of the recommendations are for 2011's and other frames that just aren't available in California. I have yet to see anyone serious in the competition world consider a poly gun but I am open to thoughts. I would really like a Stainless gun but as long as its steel I am G2G.

Thoughts?

You can shoot a match nearly every weekend in the bay area

[Mustard]

G34. Good for uspsa production up to open, depending on how many accessories you add on. I'm thinking about getting a g34 in the not too distant future for the same reason

[waygeekierthanu]

We sell STI frame based single shot 2011s, so you do have options there. We even mail them to your ffl if needed. Alternatively, cz tactical sport? So can be found here and there and are great guns. Springfield has a 9mm target on roster that you can get and customize as well

I am an FFL in Rancho Cucamonga, vist us at https://www.2azone.com

[rodralig]

All, I am itching to get a new firearm and I would like to get better at pistol shooting (faster follow ups, mag transitions etc); I doubt I'll compete just because it seems hard to find competitions in the bay area. But I would like to get better with my pistol shooting skills that could directly apply to competition if I chose to do so. (good excuse for a new gun no?)

I am thinking a 1911 platform, slide cut for an RMR sight (I think I would like to co-witness), decent magwell, compensator, and ~2 lb trigger. I am thinking 9mm capable of shooting 9 major.

I don't mind building the firearm myself (actually very much enjoy those types of projects); Not to keen on spending 5k on a pistol either but I understand that an accurate gun with a good trigger doesn't = cheep.

Seems most of the recommendations are for 2011's and other frames that just aren't available in California. I have yet to see anyone serious in the competition world consider a poly gun but I am open to thoughts. I would really like a Stainless gun but as long as its steel I am G2G.

Thoughts?

Spend 6-months diligently practicing with a stock Glock or CZ, or whatever popular $500 pistol is out there...

Then once you dial in the fundamentals, then, slowly start your "mods."

C'mon... I am quite sure stock Glocks and CZs outshoot the majority of CalGunners.


_

[bphage]

You wrote that you want to get better...and then you described a 1911 with very nice/advanced accoutrements (nothing wrong with that) but I just want to point out that you don't need the latter to achieve the former.

Any good pistol would do, 1911 or G17. Asking yourself a few questions will narrow the field.

Question #1: What kind of competition would you want to shoot if you did? USPSA Production Division for example seems to still be mostly dominated by Glock 17/34 models. I just switched from a Gen 3 G17 to a P320 X-Five, but would still be fine with the G17 if the Sig hadn't fallen into my hands at a great price. Bob Vogel won Nationals with a stock G17 I believe...look him up on youtube.


- Ideally open, but the 10rd California limitations make it impractical. Carry optics would be second choice.


Question #2: What guns do you already own? You may already own a pistol that will do the trick depending on which tricks you want to do.

- glock 32c 357sig usually shoot it with a non ported barrel.
- colt national match 45 acp, didn't want to bet up this gun.
- 357 mag revolver


Question #3: How much money do you want to spend on this? The G17 I was shooting matches with was inexpensive and required very little maintenance, 40K+ rounds later it's still as reliable as it was when I bought it. I've owned three 1911's (I built my first one) and I ran an armory full of 1911's back in the day. In my experience good ones are more expensive and all of them require more care than the plastic fantastic. My P320 X-Five also requires more care time than the G17, not much more, but enough to notice, and not everyone has time to spare. That said, if you are serious, you'll spend much more on ammunition than guns. And if you are serious and married you'll spend even more on date night to make it up to your wife for the sound of your timer going off every morning while you do your dry fire drills.


- hard question. 2 to 3 k not including optics would be as much as I want to spend... If I spend more I am not likely to want to shoot the check out of it and that defeats the point. While my colt isn't that costly it's a matching set that I have with my two brothers so I don't want to abuse it. Looking for something that I won't be that attached to.

- I would consider a glock, I shoot mine just fine... Trigger sucks I shot 4 inch groups or so at 25 yards with it... I can shoot one inch with a sw police 6 in 357 mag, have shot several hks and sigs that shoot 2 to 3 inch groups for me at that range.

- I shoot lots of rifle, pistol cost way less.

- wife is going to kill me... Plane and simple... Actually she is great and wouldn't mind. #luckyasheck


Question #4: How serious are you about concealed carry? If you carry concealed the most efficient strategy is to shoot a similar platform in competition as you carry. Compete with a G17/34, carry a G19 for instance. I'm not saying you will kill yourself or fail to save the world by doing otherwise, but it does add up to a less complex system.


- used to carry my glock 32c. Ccw in Cali is hard to get. So haven't tried. I shot that gun well enough for defense. Used to shoot it a lot more but in Cali with 10 rds I'll grab my ar in 458 socom 1st.


If you are serious about competing and/or wanting to achieve a high level of proficiency with minimal waste of time and money, shift your focus from what to how. That is, get a shot timer, a dry fire book from Steve Anderson or Ben Stoeger, and a copy of Brian Enos' book, Practical Shooting, and start dry firing at least four days a week.


- good point, ordering.


Lastly, if you want a red dot get one, I have a couple myself and will no doubt have more as my eyes change. That said, I believe that you'll get more out of learning to shoot at a high level with iron sights first, then go to a red dot. That's a hair splitting point though...dry fire is the thing that will change everything.

- I like iron sights, but started teaching my kids with a red dot and using on a few rifles... Reality is they are way way easier to use. I think they are going to be increasingly common and would like to have on at least one gun as a cowitness if possible. Good to train to the future as well as the present imo.



By the way, in the Bay Area you have an outstanding range and competition pistol club, Richmond Hot Shots. Besides the facility, awesome location, and a bunch of serious shooters, they also regularly bring in top notch guest instructors. You will get support for your goal at that club if you ask for it. https://www.richmondhotshots.com

- by chance do you know if I can i bring my kids to that range ages 8 and 9. I go to field sports park most weekends with the kids. They have a ton of fun and after going to a bunch of ranges they really are great with the kids. Wife is even picking it up more and so its turning into a weekend hobby for the family... Only issue is they keep shooting up my ammo lol I will check it out for sure... Sounds like a good group of people.

[bphage]

Cut a 1911 for an RMR and see old school 1911 guys everywhere lose their minds.

yeah, that's why I was thinking of building a dedicated gun.... No complete 1911s were hurt in the making of this firearm.

[bphage]

For me the Gold Standard in a pistol trigger is the 1911. That said, if you are going to put the training effort into getting proficient, you really won't notice the trigger after a relatively short period of committed dry/live fire. Same thing with a pistol's ergonomics. When I transitioned from 1911's to striker-fired polymer guns I didn't love the differences in grip angle, ergos, weight, and trigger. Fast forward to transitioning from a G17 to a Sig P320 and I didn't love the P320 and trigger compared to the Glock. Not only that but the Gen 5 Glocks (mine at least) have a much improved trigger, one that I like much better than the P320's.

If you train for real, all or most of the handgun-comparison issues people haggle about in other threads will quickly become non-issues. Your brain is wired to adapt to what it needs to adapt to assuming you put in a few more reps than the casual shooter.

For me at least I get more satisfaction out of being the guy who can crush it with a bone stock, regular-guy pistol, than being the shooter with the Gucci gear who can't figure out why they're shooting low and left. Mind you, I've been through my own Gucci phase and I wish I had spent that money on more training with great trainers, and I wish I'd spent at least half of my live fire rounds on more dry fire.

Random thoughts from a guy who has a few rounds downrange....YMMV.

I Like being proficient with stock firearms but in reality if I need to use a fire am in defence and all I have is my pistol I am having a really bad day. I have way more power in my rifles and can shoot those very well. Point being its not a handgun ill be carrying if I am at home.

Honestly my rifle triggers are sooooo much better. I'd like to have a real trigger in a pistol, oven the gold match colt feels heavy and spongy to some of my triggers on the rifle... I would like to change a crisp 2lb trigger to practice on.