Classroom Structured Training vs Personal Instruction vs YouTube

[Tehjosheh]

I've decided to look into training options for myself. I have been shooting all my life but have only started shooting more often for the past 5 years. I tried out my first steel "match" (it was pretty informal) about a week or two ago and it was FUN - however, I didn't do that great.

I realize I should look towards instruction. I am located in San Diego and I am trying to decide between three options:

1) Highly structured classroom + shooting training (such as Poway Weapons & Gear)

2) Personal, 1 on 1 instruction, (possibly San Diego Firearms Training?)

3) Spend all that money i would on instruction, buy a workhorse pistol + ammo, and watch a ton of the YouTubes

I am very tech savvy and learn online quick but feel that being held accountable to an actual course will force me to spend the time to develop my skillset. My end goal is to develop my technique and knowledge and eventually compete in more steel/idpa/ipsc/3 gun (haven't decided yet).

I like that Poway Weapons & Gear has multiple courses that tie into and expand on one other but I also notice they have a HEFTY price tag. I wonder if option 2) would be better as it can be less frequent (and possibly more affordable) and with the money I (potentially) save I can go shoot more. Option 3 probably is not ideal but would help me rationalize buying a new 9mm pistol (i only have a 1911 .45 ACP) .

More suggestions are welcome/encouraged. I live near downtown San Diego so a good training resource closer by would be much appreciated.

[Bwang]

Tehjosheh

Can I suggest another alternative?

Classes are expensive. Quality instruction isn't cheap, neither are facility space and other expenses. Videos are resource intensive to film, thus good teachers with good knowledge aren't about to spend tons of money and time into videos and then give them away for free. Ammunition, even 9mm is expensive, and not only that it still has recoil, which encourages the shooter to anticipate. Curing/preventing anticipation is one of the hardest challenges that an instructor faces, and even many seasoned professionals won't know how to help you.

On the other hand, books allow an author to efficiently condense down a lifetime of experience into simple and instructions that you can reference over and over again. Having read a few books on the subject by trusted authors prepares you to better absorb the same material when you see it in person at a class, thereby making much much more efficient use of your dollar and class time. Knowledge retention is a major aspect of my profession, and if you're going to put time and money into a class, knowledge retention should be your goal as well. Finally, a .22 conversion for your 1911, or a dedicated .22 pistol will allow you to save money on buying a new gun, save money on practice ammunition, and more importantly, allow you to practice fundamentals without encouraging flinch.

Example: You budget $1000 for this project. That's 3 days of training from a notable school, plus 1000 rounds of .45acp and a new holster, but then you forget half of what you learned, and still haven't fixed your flinch, because the instructors didn't have enough time to work with your during a group class. (Speaking generally to the average shooter, not necessarily you.)

You budget $1000, buy a new 9mm and 500 rounds, take a few range trips, plus watch a bunch of Youtube videos. You didn't get significantly better, and definitely reinforced any unsafe or inefficient habits you had exhibited previously, because no instructor was able to give you guidance and suggestions/corrections. (Example: Muzzling your support hand fingers on the draw.)

You budget $1000, buy an Advantage Arms conversion plus 1000 rounds of .22, absorb all the material from 3 good books by the best trainers in the world, then take a private half day class with the best trainer in your region. You take detailed notes, ask a ton of questions, fully absorb the material, and then practice every week for the next 3 months until you've mastered everything from those 3 books and 4 hours of training.

Which option gets you farther in personal satisfaction 6 months from now? Which one allows you to hammer the same hole at 7 yards again and again, so that you can later trade precision for speed? Which one allows you to graduate from tactical hobbyist to confident subject matter expert?

[Tehjosheh]

Bwang, great response. Thank you.

I did not consider written literature at all when thinking about this but your points make sense.

In fact I failed to mention I do have a Sig (GSG) 1911-22 so that is already done. I guess I was afraid shooting the .22 will be a disadvantage since it doesn't have the recoil I would see my my .45 or in a 9 (and therefore not be representative) but I see your point in it being a plus since it is not enforcing bad habits (flinching). I especially see the plus that it is affordable to shoot.

The best part is there is little to no startup costs since I already have the equipment. I'd just have to look into a few good books!

Thanks again.

[Gh0sT]

There are a few folks down in SD who provide training, and shoot on a regular basis. These businesses/individuals practice, shoot, train and not just sit on their prior experience laurels. I shoot/compete with these folks and will vouch for them personally, if that is an avenue in which you intend to go into.

http://www.ccwusa.com/ - Bill
http://asdschool.com/asds-instructors/ - Matthew

The next debate is what caliber you intend to use in the future. 9mm is probably the most economical and overall best choice due to the upcoming legislation. In short you can have one pistol that can span across all of the competitions legally. However in terms of trying to choose a pistol for yourself do this: Determine what caliber you want to shoot. Determine generally what kind of pistols work in each of the competitions. Rent the all pistols: Glock, Sig, XD, M&P, CZ that is similar (i.e. 4.5in barrel to 5in barrel) the most competitive in that class or competition and shoot 50+ rounds through each pistol. What you can do is not analyze the accuracy of the pistol, but analyze how the pistol ergonomically feels in the hands. Triggers can be modified to an extent to feel much better, but what cannot be fixed is how the pistol fits and feels in your hands.

In terms of competitive rig, you can find a ton of information online. Best thing to do is come to a local match in SD talk to the range master, have them point out who are the top shooters and simply talk to the guys and ask them what kind of rigs do they run. These guys will run their equipment to the death and trust it when traveling to major matches.


Quick on how I started. I simply got a set of cheap mag pouches and holster that fit the requirements of IDPA and USPSA (I think it was blackhawk with serpa set), went to a match and shot it. Brought the safety mindset of keeping the muzzle down range, finger discipline when not engaging, and kept going back...4 years later here I am. I cannot say I took any formal training of the sort, I went at shooting sort of like trying to emulate sports players. Made myself aware of who was the best, try to emulate what they did.

There is a metric ton of information I am leaving out, but hopefully this is a starting point for you. Hope to see you out there.

[Tehjosheh]

Gh0sT, thanks for the reply and the training resources! I was not aware of those two.

As far as selecting a caliber and competition platform, I've determined to go the 9mm route and I did test fire ~10 different 9mm's last time I went to the range and have narrowed it down to about ~3 mostly based on ergonomics (P226, XD9, CZ75). Not planning on buying yet so I will be researching much more into this soon.

Good advice in talking to a local range master for tips. Thanks again!

[tanks]

One other thing I would check into in regards to the 3 firearms you are looking at are the customization options and after market support.

[envelope]

Gun-fu is like any martial art-- there is no single right answer, and plenty of answers that work. However, there are a ton of wrong answers. Having an instructor watch you (1:1 or in a group where you get shared time) is key, as he/she can highlight the sources of your problem. Often times you may not be aware you're doing them.

Going to class is exactly that-- a class. In class you'll learn HOW and WHAT to practice; it's up to you to practice those things on your own after the class is over.

As much as I think class is irreplaceable, if you're concerned about stretching your dollar, I think you could get away with something like 80% online videos+dry/live fire, and 20% class training. As long as you're intermittently having someone watch you, it'll keep you from veering off into lala land.

[ParaLarry]

There is also a basic firearms safety class offered through City College that is held weeknights at the SD Police Range on Home Avenue.


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[baranski]

See Bill Go, super nice guy and a great shooter.

https://www.academi.com/pages/facilities/san-diego-ca

[rmatt]

The Adv Handgun Class with B Go is something I've taken multiple times. I highly recommend.

The series of pistol courses from Aegis Academy is something I've taken and then later taught. I highly recommend.

[Tehjosheh]

thank you for all the resources everybody, appreciate it!

I will be looking into these more in depth in the upcoming weeks.