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  • Bert Gamble
    Veteran Member
    • Mar 2011
    • 3230

    Just got back from Gunsite

    Completed the Close Quarter Pistol class, and here is the review.

    It is always good to go to Gunsite, and this class was no different on that level. Where it was different was that this course was not fun. It was a lot of work, and it was probably the most useful class I have ever attended. It just wasn't very enjoyable.

    What I learned first is that I was not prepared to fight. I was good with a gun, but at really close range the gun is easily defeated, and I did not have the skills necessary to fight in other ways.

    We spent the first morning going through the 250 pistol course to make sure everyone was safe and competent with their guns. After lunch we were in the classroom learning balance and footwork. This is actually more difficult than it seems. We learned that the footwork and stance we learned at Gunsite or Frontsight are great for target shooting, but inadequate for fighting for your life. It took all 9 of us at least 4 days to unlearn the Weaver stance/blade that we have been using for so long.

    The second morning was spent on the range practicing shooting on the move, while using the newly learned square hipped stance. We were all impressed that we were able to shoot with either foot forward and the other used as a drive leg. The afternoon was back in class learning how to apply the different strikes and shield position. It is not that easy to hit while maintaining a stable base that is totally different than what we are used to doing.

    The other days were similar, but the classroom sessions ended after Wednesday. Thursday and Friday had us on the range practicing all of the moving, shooting, shielding, and striking skills we had learned. It is really hard to maintain trigger control after spending 5 seconds striking a punching dummy. We had to be able to move, draw, and make 2 hits on steel targets in 4 seconds. If we missed the time or the shot, we had to start over hitting "Bob", then moving and shooting. Two guys took 11 tries to get through the drill. They were almost dead on the last attempt, but they powered through. We finished up in a shoot house where all techniques were put to use.

    I would recommend this class to anyone who carries a gun and believes it will solve all problems, because like me, your eyes need to be opened. Just expect to be sore and tied at the end of each day.
    WARNING: This post will most likely contain statements that are offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense, and or maturity.

    Satire: A literary composition, in verse or prose, in which human folly and vice are held up to scorn, derision, or ridicule.
    _____________________________________________
  • #2
    Corbin Dallas
    CGN/CGSSA Contributor - Lifetime
    CGN Contributor - Lifetime
    • May 2006
    • 6356

    I'm always surprised instructors still teach the weaver and I'm always glad to hear from students who learned both and can appreciate why each one exists and what their strengths and weaknesses are.
    NRA Life Member and Certified Instructor: Pistol - Rifle - Shotgun - PPITH - PPOTH - NRA Certified RSO

    WTB the following - in San Diego
    --Steyr M357A1 357SIG
    --Five Seven IOM (round trigger guard)

    Never forget - השואה... לעולם לא עוד.

    Comment

    • #3
      BrassCase
      CGN/CGSSA Contributor
      CGN Contributor
      • Dec 2011
      • 3192

      Can you give us an idea of the cost?
      I'd agree with you but then we'd both be wrong...
      NRA Certified:

      Chief Range Safety Officer
      Instructor: Basic Pistol Shooting
      Instructor: Personal Protection Inside the Home

      Comment

      • #4
        Corbin Dallas
        CGN/CGSSA Contributor - Lifetime
        CGN Contributor - Lifetime
        • May 2006
        • 6356

        Gun site is going to cost about 2g's with ammo and housing.
        NRA Life Member and Certified Instructor: Pistol - Rifle - Shotgun - PPITH - PPOTH - NRA Certified RSO

        WTB the following - in San Diego
        --Steyr M357A1 357SIG
        --Five Seven IOM (round trigger guard)

        Never forget - השואה... לעולם לא עוד.

        Comment

        • #5
          Jedi54
          Senior Member
          • Mar 2013
          • 1012

          Originally posted by BrassCase
          Can you give us an idea of the cost?
          appears to be $1,895 for the 5 day course

          Comment

          • #6
            Sleighter
            Veteran Member
            • Apr 2011
            • 3624

            Awesome review. So did the class teach isosceles or was it a variation?
            If you are wondering if you can get a LTC in Riverside County: THE ANSWER IS YES!

            Join the discussion at:http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=352777

            Comment

            • #7
              Bert Gamble
              Veteran Member
              • Mar 2011
              • 3230

              Originally posted by Sleighter
              Awesome review. So did the class teach isosceles or was it a variation?
              They taught a balanced fighting stance that could have either leg forward, with a "Drive leg" behind. The hips and shoulders are square to the target, which allows you to strike, shield, or shoot, depending on the situation.

              This class was also big on attacking first when in a bad situation (not necessarily shooting). They taught relentless violence, and the need to finish the encounter in 9 seconds or less. Also showed how easy it is to neutralize a gun at close distance, and that we cannot be so dependent on them. They said that police are too focused on their toys solving all problems, and that their hands on skills have suffered because of that.
              WARNING: This post will most likely contain statements that are offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense, and or maturity.

              Satire: A literary composition, in verse or prose, in which human folly and vice are held up to scorn, derision, or ridicule.
              _____________________________________________

              Comment

              • #8
                9mmepiphany
                Calguns Addict
                • Jul 2008
                • 8075

                That's a pretty small class. I can see why they charge more for it than a 250 class
                ...because the journey is the worthier part...The Shepherd's Tale

                Comment

                • #9
                  Bert Gamble
                  Veteran Member
                  • Mar 2011
                  • 3230

                  Originally posted by HopetonBrown
                  They put some videos up recently of the class on Facebook. Looked like fun.
                  It was informative, but not fun like the other classes. Way too much hitting and being hit for it to be fun. But hey, I now know the easiest way to rip a guys throat out, and I am pretty good at finger strikes to the eyes.
                  WARNING: This post will most likely contain statements that are offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense, and or maturity.

                  Satire: A literary composition, in verse or prose, in which human folly and vice are held up to scorn, derision, or ridicule.
                  _____________________________________________

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    splithoof
                    Calguns Addict
                    • May 2015
                    • 6038

                    It was indeed a great class. I especially liked the retention shooting. Also, that demo of the ported-barrel Glock and the issues that brings was impressive. It was good to shoot with you and the others. As always, another great Gunsite experience.

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Whiskey_Sauer
                      Senior Member
                      • Aug 2008
                      • 946

                      Originally posted by splithoof
                      Also, that demo of the ported-barrel Glock and the issues that brings was impressive.
                      Can you elaborate on this? (or link to the video?) Thanks.

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        splithoof
                        Calguns Addict
                        • May 2015
                        • 6038

                        Originally posted by Whiskey_Sauer
                        Can you elaborate on this? (or link to the video?) Thanks.
                        There is no video, but we were given a live demonstration using a weapon brought by a student.
                        A factory Glock pistol that had factory barrel porting, with corresponding vents in the top of the slide was used. An empty cardboard ammunition box was placed/balanced on top of the slide, while the pistol was held out in a normal firing position. Upon firing, the box was blown into numerous small pieces, which went several feet in various directions. The point of this was to show that some weapons with porting like that model expel hot burning gasses (as designed) in a manner that could cause injury to the shooter, depending how the weapon is used. In the case of our class, the student using that particular Glock model noted that when firing from the position of retention, he distinctly noticed those hot gasses and particles contacting his neck and facial areas where exposed. At that point I think he switched weapons for further training when using that position. This raises questions about the suitability of weapons ported in such a manner for combative uses; to each his own, but IMO I prefer something that does not have such porting.
                        Also note that at ALL times, students and instructors are wearing appropriate eye and hearing protection.

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Whiskey_Sauer
                          Senior Member
                          • Aug 2008
                          • 946

                          Originally posted by splithoof
                          The point of this was to show that some weapons with porting like that model expel hot burning gasses (as designed) in a manner that could cause injury to the shooter, depending how the weapon is used. In the case of our class, the student using that particular Glock model noted that when firing from the position of retention, he distinctly noticed those hot gasses and particles contacting his neck and facial areas where exposed.
                          Aha, good to know... thanks.

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            DSMeyer
                            Veteran Member
                            • Jun 2013
                            • 2689

                            I've seen first hand what a ported hand gun does to a ZZ Top style of beard when fired from close contact retention. POOF! A flaming mess of facial hair. It was an of crap! Moment but quickly turned to laughter as the guy quickly holstered the gun and violently started patting out the smoldering beard.
                            We'll just give them the 'ol number 6.

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              Bert Gamble
                              Veteran Member
                              • Mar 2011
                              • 3230

                              Originally posted by DSMeyer
                              I've seen first hand what a ported hand gun does to a ZZ Top style of beard when fired from close contact retention. POOF! A flaming mess of facial hair. It was an of crap! Moment but quickly turned to laughter as the guy quickly holstered the gun and violently started patting out the smoldering beard.
                              That would have been funny.
                              WARNING: This post will most likely contain statements that are offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense, and or maturity.

                              Satire: A literary composition, in verse or prose, in which human folly and vice are held up to scorn, derision, or ridicule.
                              _____________________________________________

                              Comment

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