Military and LEO, Say No To Front Site

[volksweegle]

Anyone who has or has ever wanted a membership to Front Site, or just wanted to attend one of their courses, DON'T. Period.

I sent them my resume, to try out for an instructor job. I was offered to try out in one of their 4 day Instructor Development Courses.

Now, just so everyone knows my background, like I said before, I am a former Marine with 2 tours in Iraq. I am also a former cop in L.A. County. I am currently an instructor with a small company here in SoCal and I am a competitive shooter (when I have the money of course) as well. Needless to say, I know my way around the gun, and am very comfortable in modern tactics and weapons employment.

Well, today (04-20-15) I showed up for day 1 of the course and lasted all but 4 hours. I told the instructors that I could not physically and mentally perform to their curriculum. They only teach the Weaver stance, a stance that hasn't been taught in the mainstream since the f*****g 80's. Their reload drills were completely asinine. Their definition of "reloading in your working space" was you lower chest!! What in the actual f**k, over? Why would I look down to reload? The instructors even admitted that their were better reloading and shooting methods out there, but they don't teach those there. So they admit there are better tactics but they wouldn't teach them? Are you f*****g joking? I told them I couldn't teach an admitted inferior shooting method when there are known methods that are better. They told me the weaver stance allows for better accuracy and faster follow in shots. Um, no. Just not true at all.

Out of all the instructor staff that was present today, not one had any real world experience in firearms or combative backgrounds like military or law enforcement.

Bottom line, I would never recommend Front Site to anyone with a military or law enforcement background. It's the complete opposite of how you train. If you have no firearms experience, by all means. Front Site is better then nothing, but in my humble opinion, it sits at the bottom in tactical and practical instruction. Pay the money and train at Gun Site or Suarez.

[SoldierLife7]

Being in the military, I see this all the time.

We have doctrine which we have to teach per regulation, and then we have what realy works. A good instructor will teach you what the rules say has to be taught, and then teach that there is more than one way to skin a cat.

(Is it too soon to make jokes about skinning cats?)

[SimonBirch]

Ya some places are more concerned with just taking people's money. They could give a rats a** what u learn.

[steelciocc]

Get over your self.

[ZombieTactics]

... I told the instructors that I could not physically and mentally perform to their curriculum. ...

You really don't need to say anything else. If you cant or won't do the job ... why is that their fault?

Honestly, there are several schools which still teach or feature Weaver. Gunsite still does, for instance. I don't consider it an optimal technique by far, and neither do you or most people ... but that's hardly the point.

Would you apply for a job at McDonalds and then complain they wouldn't change their menu to your liking?

[Jimbo60]

So lemee get this straight....

You applied for a position to teach their curriculum?

Now you're bad mouthing because you don't agree.

yeah ..... ^^^^ what he said^^^^

[teg33]

Appreciate your input however pardon me, you complain because they are not good or because you don't get the job ?

[DSMeyer]

[Blackhorse2010]

Let's see...

"I showed up for day 1 of the course and lasted all but 4 hours. I told the instructors that I could not physically and mentally perform to their curriculum."

...so what you're saying is that you didn't make it to the second skills test...

Last year, there was a 70 year old with a cane that made through Day 3.


Out of all the instructor staff that was present today, not one had any real world experience in firearms or combative backgrounds like military or law enforcement.

I did 24 years active duty in a combat MOS and followed that up with 3 years training Soldiers and Marines in CQM, CQB, crew-served weapons, and counter IED operations. I'll tell you a hard truth:
The military generally does a piss-poor job of training the majority of it's members in handguns.
Unless they're "operators", there's little-to-no emphasis on handguns, so an instructor's background doesn't necessarily mean anything other than "ooh, ahhhh" factor during the instructor intros on Day 1.

[DSMeyer]

Oh...... And it wasn't even smoking hot out there this past Monday.. FAIL!!!!!!!!

[John M]

Former cop in LA county huh, People only leave LE jobs for 3 reasons..

1. To become firemen
2. They get fired
3. They retire

I wouldn't pad my resume with this info unless you fall into one of these 3, otherwise people think "What Happened"

Also, Gunsite and Thunder Ranch only taught the Weaver for years and supposedly still do..

Your lucky they gave you a shot in the first place.

[SDBlaster]

I took a class a few weeks ago and my instructors Chris and Larry were awesome.

[XDJYo]

*NONE* of their instructors have any real world military background? Hmmm...I SERIOUSLY doubt that. In fact, I KNOW you're wrong about that.

In my 4 days (HEY!!! Dude! I'm old and NOT a war vet and lasted longer than you! HAHAHAHA!)...as I was saying, in my 4 days at FS, never did I hear any single one of their instructors badmouth other techniques, schools, stances, grips etc. They DO, after all, follow a course curriculum. Maybe, before you drove all the way out there, you would have done just a smidgen of research on Front Sight...Just a thought.

Keep it classy.

[SG29736]

Sgt. 1342. You've got it backwards. Many people who go say that they do teach and encourage the use of the Weaver stance. But they will allow you to use isosceles if you insist. Mark

[Ronin2]

Their reload drills were completely asinine. Their definition of "reloading in your working space" was you lower chest!! What in the actual f**k, over? Why would I look down to reload?

I train in a military/LEO environment/school that does NOT teach teach/promote that "high work space" / in your face reload. Despite its popularity with the USPSA/IPSC competition champions whose SOP's are now in vogue with the tactical training crowd, I personally disagree with it. Why would you ever bring the muzzle of the weapon, the dangerous "front towards enemy" end anywhere near your face? Why would you want to bring the muzzle up and at an angle at face level to reload when you might be kneeling next to a friendly who is standing (think hi-low drills and malfunction drills as well down using cover).

Former cop in LA county huh, People only leave LE jobs for 3 4 reasons..

1. To become firemen
2. They get fired
3. They retire
4. On the job injury/medical disability

John M., fixed it for you...