Loading copper

[perchslayer]

Im new at copper loading, so here is a question, the copper bullets are a bit longer, (223) than the SP ive been using, weighed them,, right at 55 gr. should i use the OAL for a 55 gr. or maybe the next size up (in weight)in my manual which is a 62 gr bullet/

[Fjold]

For load development use the same weight as lead bullets.

Just realize that you have to be conscious of the length for stability. If you have a 12" twist 223, it won't stabilize the 50 grain copper bullets.

[pacrat]

For load development use the same weight as lead bullets.

I do not agree in all cases. There are different types of "all copper" bullets.

If using newer Barnes TSX bullets with the driving bands cut in the circumference, they are safe to use with "lead core" data of same weight. Early Barnes had no bands and created much higher start pressures. That's why they added the bands.

If using bullets without driving bands, such as the Nosler E-tip, they are not safe with lead core data.

OP yes, all copper bullets are longer per weight than lead core because copper is lighter. Creating more bore bearing surface thus higher friction. They are also "harder" than lead core. Because they are copper all the way through. Rather than a few thousandths of copper over soft lead. This requires more start pressure to "engrave" them to the rifling and get the bullet fully into the bore.

Whichever type [banded/non banded] follow safe loading protocals and always start at start and work up slowly in small increments for your powder charge.

JM2c

[Wrangler John]

In addition to what pacrat said, remember that lead free copper bullets, both the monolithic expanding types such as the Barnes TTSX and the compressed powdered copper-tin core types, such as the Varmint Grenades, usually group best when seated well off the lands. They like to jump a bit from the case to the rifling. With the Varmint Grenades a minimum jump is 0.020" and up. With the .257" TTSX 80 grain bullet it shoots best in my rifle at exactly 0.050" off the lands. I mean EXACTLY 0.050" no more no less. Other calibers and weights are said to act the same. Seating these bullets too close to the lands will raise pressure and destroy accuracy. If these bullet don't quite shoot up to expectations try adjusting the seating depth. If they still don't shoot check your rifling twist, it may be too slow, in which case try a lighter (shorter) copper bullet.

[JagerDog]

Lack of jump/freebore can send pressures soaring. Copper doesn't engrave as easily.

Ogive profile can be significantly different as well. I had to seat 50 gr varmint grenades deeper (shorter COAL) than lead 50gr to even get the bolt to close.

[Rbutler]

load data is based more no bearing surface length then bullet weight, the reason we use bullet weight is because its usyually close enough in length to fit within the charge weights provided.

copper is a longer bullet which typically causes a longer bearing length, hence using the data from an heavier bullet. as mentioned above the driving bands reduce this bearing surface by only having the driving bands and seal bands touching.

start low and work up.

[gvbsat]

load data is based more no bearing surface length then bullet weight, the reason we use bullet weight is because its usyually close enough in length to fit within the charge weights provided.

copper is a longer bullet which typically causes a longer bearing length, hence using the data from an heavier bullet. as mentioned above the driving bands reduce this bearing surface by only having the driving bands and seal bands touching.

start low and work up.

What he said

[perchslayer]

load data is based more no bearing surface length then bullet weight, the reason we use bullet weight is because its usyually close enough in length to fit within the charge weights provided.

copper is a longer bullet which typically causes a longer bearing length, hence using the data from an heavier bullet. as mentioned above the driving bands reduce this bearing surface by only having the driving bands and seal bands touching.

start low and work up.

So in a nutshell, I SHOULD be able to use 60 gr. LEAD data for my 55 gr COPPER bullets and be ok, correct? Remember i have no data listings for these solid copper bullets.

Brandname is "Copperhead" 55 gr.BT

[Rbutler]

I would look at older barnes load data since they are all copper or the sfire load data. since those are copper frangible.

[pacrat]

I would look at older barnes load data since they are all copper or the sfire load data. since those are copper frangible.

Or Nosler E-tip data. Something that has same unbanded construction.

[Whiterabbit]

So in a nutshell, I SHOULD be able to use 60 gr. LEAD data for my 55 gr COPPER bullets and be ok, correct? Remember i have no data listings for these solid copper bullets.

Brandname is "Copperhead" 55 gr.BT

I would have no qualms doing that. But I wouldn;t be starting anywhere near the max load either.

[woodnsteel]

solid copper bullets.

I would have no qualms doing that. But I wouldn;t be starting anywhere near the max load either.

I got hold of 1000 55gr solid copper bullets Monday,84.00 shipped usps to san diego. They are .800 inches long and have a boat tail and a pointed flat point tip.
I have Data73 powder (like Accurate 2230 but faster) and looked at Barnes 223 data using the TSX-FB projectile. Start speed is 2905 fps with a load of 2230 @ 21.7 gr and a COL of2.183"
The bullets I have do not have grooves or bands and are just a smooth long light copper projectile...
The max load Barnes has is 24.1gr 2230 at a speed of 3195 fps. 54900 psi
24" barrel- twist not stated on this one.

[Divernhunter]

If it is a bolt rifle probably will not stabilize those bullets. Probably a 1-12" twist. You will need at least a 1-10 or faster to work is my guess.

It pays to research before you buy.

[Whiterabbit]

woodnsteel, I make no comment about bullet stability or downrange results, only what I have noticed with respect to pressure when loading and shooting solid copper projectiles.

The lack of drive bands would not worry me at all. If my rifle could shoot one step above the start load using a driving band bullet, I would be very confident that it could at least shoot the start load with a zero drive band bullet.

You can confirm this by looking at load data for E-tips, which do not have a drive band.

But you don't have to believe that data, either. I've loaded barnes bullets that have no drive bands and noted the results.

---------

Bottom line, if you have common sense and use your head, you'll be fine working up the bullets you have just the same as any other bullet type. I'd be perfectly confident using barnes data. Each fired case to start with would simply get additional scrutiny knowing that pressure signs may set sooner. May.

Noone on calguns is the type of person who starts with max loads.

[Daydrmr999]

I have been testing some of the copperhead brand bullets. Still in the process of working up loads, but so far have tested some with accurate 2015, imr3031, and benchmark. I am using data for 60g jacketed bullets from lyman 49th. I have not reached maxed published load yet, but my max loads with these powders is: 2015-22g, 3031-22g, benchmark-23g. None of these loads has shown any pressure signs. Shooting at 100 yards out of a marlin x7vh 1:9 twist 26" barrel. I have not had a chance to run any over the chrony yet, but based on first groups, the 3031 appears to be most promising. I am also going to try imr 4198, based on reports from a thread I am participating in on reddit. I'm hopping to get some loaded up this week and get them run over the chrony. I will be starting at 21.5g and working towards published max for imr3031, and starting at 20g 4198 and working up.