30-06 COAL issue/question

[Michael in California]

Loading 150 gr sierra game king using a lee seating die. This is for my charge work-up for my Garand.

I'm seating to the cannula expecting an OAL of 3.258, which is what I set up the die to do.

As it happens, I get quite a variation from a min of 3.258 to a max of 3.271. I'm not worried about safety, just round to round consistency. For reference, my Greek surplus measures about 3.326.

Since your seating die is supposedly mating with the ogive, I'm guessing I'm seeing inconsistencies in the bullet ogive manifesting itself as seating depth variance.

Is this normal? Is this acceptable. If necessary, I could seat each bullet to 2.258, but it will take a while as I'd have to diddle with the seating die for each round.

For reference, I'm new to reloading rifle rounds. Its been fun learning the extra steps and I've only killed two primers in poorly swaged primer pockets and killed three pieces of brass with bad trimming and actually stuck one case in the sizing die and had to cut if off the sizing stem after removal.

[highpower790]

Sierra bullets are good bullets and you shouldn't worry about them.Sounds to me like the brass hasn't been trimmed.Trim brass after sizing ,deburr and load.

[Michael in California]

Brass is trimmed. Pretty darned consistently too, checked every one. Trimmed to 2.484 per normal trim length.

[highpower790]

Are you crimping?If so ,don't!Game kings that Ive seen dont have a cannelure.Not sure what you have that does.
There should be plenty of neck tension on bullet as long as you follow the instructions properly...as a side note ,I don't crimp anything,wether it be for semi or bolt rifle.

[Michael in California]

Not crimping. At least I don't think so. I set the seating die so that the brass is a tad below the neck in the die to avoid a crimp. Rounds don't look crimped.

Also, why would crimp or not and trim or not matter to OAL. You still have the same distance from the shell holder to the plug that holds the bullet. I can see making some ugly and/or crushed rounds, but not a variation in length.

Note at the below link, there are two game king rounds with a cannelure.

https://www.sierrabullets.com/products/bullets/rifle.cfm/brandID/2

I'd not want to intentionally seat much shallower though as there is only a bit more than half a caliber in the neck already, considering the boat tail.

I'll go back and inspect the rounds for evidence of a crimp, but that wasn't the plan.

[OpenSightsOnly]

Loading 150 gr sierra game king using a lee seating die. This is for my charge work-up for my Garand.

I'm seating to the cannula expecting an OAL of 3.258, which is what I set up the die to do.

As it happens, I get quite a variation from a min of 3.258 to a max of 3.271. I'm not worried about safety, just round to round consistency. For reference, my Greek surplus measures about 3.326.

Since your seating die is supposedly mating with the ogive, I'm guessing I'm seeing inconsistencies in the bullet ogive manifesting itself as seating depth variance.

Is this normal? Is this acceptable. If necessary, I could seat each bullet to 2.258, but it will take a while as I'd have to diddle with the seating die for each round.

For reference, I'm new to reloading rifle rounds. Its been fun learning the extra steps and I've only killed two primers in poorly swaged primer pockets and killed three pieces of brass with bad trimming and actually stuck one case in the sizing die and had to cut if off the sizing stem after removal.

I wouldn't worry about it.

However, if so inclined, you can use the bullet comparator from Hornady or Sinclair - so you can sort the lot based on ogive.

Then again, an as-issued M1 is 3 or 4 MOA.

Enjoy it for what it is . . .

[M1NM]

Sounds like you are not consistant on the handle. Make sure you go to the bottom on every stroke and you'll get consistant ammo.

[highpower790]

Not crimping. At least I don't think so. I set the seating die so that the brass is a tad below the neck in the die to avoid a crimp. Rounds don't look crimped.

Also, why would crimp or not and trim or not matter to OAL. You still have the same distance from the shell holder to the plug that holds the bullet. I can see making some ugly and/or crushed rounds, but not a variation in length.

Note at the below link, there are two game king rounds with a cannelure.

https://www.sierrabullets.com/products/bullets/rifle.cfm/brandID/2

I'd not want to intentionally seat much shallower though as there is only a bit more than half a caliber in the neck already, considering the boat tail.

I'll go back and inspect the rounds for evidence of a crimp, but that wasn't the plan.

The sizing of brass will cause the brass to stretch as it passes the expander ball on the up stroke ,for this reason brass should be trimmed after sizing. Crimping a bullet that doesnt have a cannelure will damage the bullet jacket possibly affecting(oal) accuracy .

[Michael in California]

Trimmed after sizing. I'm doing processes in proper order.

I was attentive to dwell at full handle stroke so I know I should be seating as well as I can.

I don't have this issue on 9mm, but its simpler, its on a different press and, of course, different dies.

I think I have controlled those variables that I can control fairly well. I am attentive and being my first rifle rounds, I'm trying to be extra careful and double checking each step. Its easy to blame the bullet or the plug in the die as causing the variability. Its hard to actually make this true, however.

I doubt it matters, but I"m using Lee dies that are probably 15-20 years old. I disassembled, cleaned and lubed as necessary.

I also double checked and I see no signs of a crimp as I intended.

So, it appears that folks do not get 0.012" variance in a lot of ammo.

I agree that a comparator would be a nice luxury, it should not be a requirement for my needs though. Its is a Garand, after all.

[Grunt81]

Sounds like you are not consistant on the handle. Make sure you go to the bottom on every stroke and you'll get consistant ammo.

I agree with this statement. What press are you loading on? If it's a turret and there's flex in the turret, OAL can be inconsistent. Make sure your die is inserted into the press according to the instructions. You're usually supposed to lower the handle all the way in order to raise the ram all the way. Then screw the die in until it touches the shell holder, then screw in the die 1/4 to 3/4 turns more, depending on the type of press. I own three Lee bullet seating dies. I've noticed that if the die isn't properly adjusted, then the knob on the top that you screw in or out to adjust seating depth, is wobbly. If the knob feels wobbly, go ahead and back out the lock ring about a quarter turn, so that you can screw the die in another half turn. This should help. Also, make sure you lower the handle all the way, with the same amount of pressure each time. The shell holder should push the bottom of the die up a few thousandths of an inch. If you have a wobbly bench, I can see how that can contribute to a larger extreme spread in seating depth. But you basically have a variation of +/- 0.006". That's not too bad considering you're new to this and aren't using match bullets. Even Sierra Match King bullets have some variation in where there ogive end up. No manufacturer, not even Lapua, makes bullets thare 100% identical in weight and bearing surface. Also, make sure you aren't excessively chamfering and deburring some cases and not enough on other cases after trimming...do the things I'm saying, and maybe you'll tighten up the OAL variation to about +/- 0.004" which is perfectly normal for Lee dies, and will still result in accurate ammo.

Crimping a bullet that doesnt have a cannelure will damage the bullet jacket possibly affecting(oal) accuracy .

I gotta disagree with this statement bud. The Lee Factory Crimp Die is claimed by Lee to form a cannelure on bullets that don't have one. I've shot hundreds of 69 grain Nosler Custom Competition HPBT through 2 AR-15s. My varmint AR regularly shoots them into 0.5 MOA at 200yds. All of these rounds are crimped.

I will say though, I've noticed if the crimp is excessive, I can actually see the bullet bulge out from where the crimp is. I've gotten sub 1/2 MOA accuracy with those rounds as well. If the deformation of the jacket is the same, then it's safe to believe the bullets will behave similarly as they travel through the air. I only crimp semi-auto, not bolt action. Screwing in the Lee full-length sizing die a tad more helps get a higher degree of neck tension for bolt action rounds.

[highpower790]

I agree with this statement. What press are you loading on? If it's a turret and there's flex in the turret, OAL can be inconsistent. Make sure your die is inserted into the press according to the instructions. You're usually supposed to lower the handle all the way in order to raise the ram all the way. Then screw the die in until it touches the shell holder, then screw in the die 1/4 to 3/4 turns more, depending on the type of press. I own three Lee bullet seating dies. I've noticed that if the die isn't properly adjusted, then the knob on the top that you screw in or out to adjust seating depth, is wobbly. If the knob feels wobbly, go ahead and back out the lock ring about a quarter turn, so that you can screw the die in another half turn. This should help. Also, make sure you lower the handle all the way, with the same amount of pressure each time. The shell holder should push the bottom of the die up a few thousandths of an inch. If you have a wobbly bench, I can see how that can contribute to a larger extreme spread in seating depth. But you basically have a variation of +/- 0.006". That's not too bad considering you're new to this and aren't using match bullets. Even Sierra Match King bullets have some variation in where there ogive end up. No manufacturer, not even Lapua, makes bullets thare 100% identical in weight and bearing surface. Also, make sure you aren't excessively chamfering and deburring some cases and not enough on other cases after trimming...do the things I'm saying, and maybe you'll tighten up the OAL variation to about +/- 0.004" which is perfectly normal for Lee dies, and will still result in accurate ammo.


I gotta disagree with this statement bud. The Lee Factory Crimp Die is claimed by Lee to form a cannelure on bullets that don't have one. I've shot hundreds of 69 grain Nosler Custom Competition HPBT through 2 AR-15s. My varmint AR regularly shoots them into 0.5 MOA at 200yds. All of these rounds are crimped.

I will say though, I've noticed if the crimp is excessive, I can actually see the bullet bulge out from where the crimp is. I've gotten sub 1/2 MOA accuracy with those rounds as well. If the deformation of the jacket is the same, then it's safe to believe the bullets will behave similarly as they travel through the air. I only crimp semi-auto, not bolt action. Screwing in the Lee full-length sizing die a tad more helps get a higher degree of neck tension for bolt action rounds.

I did say possibly!

[kcstott]

double check the bullet seating die lock ring and seat lock nut, Be consistent on the handle.

Outside of that the rest is irrelevant. Crimping is fine. RCBS recommends a cannelure, Lee doesn't I've crimped both ways and although not for BR ammo it functioned just fine and shoots nice little groups too.

that said If I was loading match ammo it would be Sized, Trimmed, Neck turned, Flash hole uniformed, primer pocket reamed, hand weighed charges to the .05 of a grain and using bullets and cases that are match grade and sorted to my specs.

I did say possibly!

347 words to state your case can not be retracted by one
THE SKY IS FALLING, THE SKY IS FALLING, THE SKY IS FALLING, THE SKY IS FALLING,..... possibly..... do you see how that works???

[Grunt81]

I did say possibly!

I wish there was a smilie of the guy on the cover of Mad Magazine. But since nah, these will have to do.

[Michael in California]

OK, more info. I'm going to blame bullet variability.

I took the seating plug out of the seating die and used it like you would a comparator with my calipers and I get much more reasonable OAL variation of +/- 0.002, so a spread of .004.

A little further internet reading says that it should be expected that tips vary due to the way the bullets are manufactured.

I think I'm good. If I get a chance, I'm going to the range tomorrow and shoot some. I'll set up the Chrony, the bench and target and spend the morning in the cold firing shots and taking notes.

[J-cat]

It's normal. There are many variables that play into it. Bullet dimensions are one. Case neck tension is another. Powder level is another. The harder it is to seat the bullet, the longer the OAL because the bullet will try to swage itself inside the seater plug as you are forcing it down the case neck. Remember, bullets are soft. They conform to steel, not the other way around. Also realize that no two cases are alike. One may be harder. It may be heavier. I have a bag of Hornady range brass that varies in weight by 15 grains. That 15 grains has to go somewhere. Sometimes it goes into the neck. Thicker necks are harder to seat into. If you're using mixed brass, even from the same manufacturer, it can induce all sorts of variance.