ladder test results

[hemiguy55]

So for the past month I have been slaving away making ladder tests for my new cz shadow target (9mm). I made everything the exact same except for the powder and varying charges. I used bullseye, titegroup, autocomp, 231, cfe pistol, unique, 700x, and power pistol. The constants in this big test were win spp, oal 1.175 (I made them long to achieve better accuracy, I read the shadow target was modified to accept longer rounds), starling brass, behind a 147 grain Xtreme HPCB RN projectile shot at 7 yards. I'd like to hear your guys feedback! What do you guys think is the best load for action shooting?

I did have a few problems tho. I had a handful of failure to feed and about 50% of the time when I'd load in a new mag into the handgun with the slide locked back, I'd hit the slide release and the slide wouldn't go home 100%. I think I may have not crimped enough or taken the flare all the way out. Check out the pics! One picture Is of the slide almost closed and the other is the slide 100% closed.

[hemiguy55]

Yes I know, I forgot to take a picture of the titegroup test. It wasn't anything special though. Maybe I'll make another one and post it later.

[ExtremeX]

Are you shooting these off a rest or offhand? What do your groups typically look like at 7 yards with good ammo?

If you are having a 50% feed issue, and assuming the dies are setup correctly, I would make some dummy rounds and play with OAL first before making the ladder and get feed reliability where it needs to be.

Then start the ladder testing...

[hemiguy55]

These are all shot offhand.
As for the dummy rounds, I fid make one to see what worked. I probably should have made more than one though.

[Rbutler]

are you over crimping? i know with some dies if you crimp and seat in one step you can over crimp and c ause a TINY shoulder to happen that gets stuck.

major headaches in my 458 when i did that.

[hemiguy55]

are you over crimping? i know with some dies if you crimp and seat in one step you can over crimp and c ause a TINY shoulder to happen that gets stuck.

major headaches in my 458 when i did that.

No. I seat and crimp in 2 steps. This is the first set of rounds that I have made seating and crimping in 2 steps. I'm using dillon 9mm dies.

[sbmunshi]

Your OAL may be a bit long. Did you remove the barrel and check to see that your cartrige fit?

[ExtremeX]

Your OAL may be a bit long. Did you remove the barrel and check to see that your cartrige fit?

Another good test...

He is taking about using the barrel as a case gauge.

[Grunt81]

Make sure your dies are set up correctly...all of them. Most directions are for the die to touch the shell holder, and then screw them in anywhere from one quarter to three quarter turns deeper. This should take care of your malfunctions because I don't think they are due to light charges.

For accuracy testing, you really want to take as much human error out of the equation as possible. This means shooting from a rest, at least a sand bag or a back pack to rest your wrists on will help out a lot. I'd shoot at max range of indoor range, usually 17 yards or so, or farther. I'll tell you what, and I'm really not trying to sound like an a-hole, but those groups offhand look better suited for a compact CCW pistol, not a target pistol at 7 yards.

Get your reloading technique down so you have no malfunctions, then practice.

Good Luck.

[hemiguy55]

Another good test...

He is taking about using the barrel as a case gauge.

Thanks a lot. That's going to help out big time. I'll have to check out how my rounds look.

[hemiguy55]

Make sure your dies are set up correctly...all of them. Most directions are for the die to touch the shell holder, and then screw them in anywhere from one quarter to three quarter turns deeper. This should take care of your malfunctions because I don't think they are due to light charges.

For accuracy testing, you really want to take as much human error out of the equation as possible. This means shooting from a rest, at least a sand bag or a back pack to rest your wrists on will help out a lot. I'd shoot at max range of indoor range, usually 17 yards or so, or farther. I'll tell you what, and I'm really not trying to sound like an a-hole, but those groups offhand look better suited for a compact CCW pistol, not a target pistol at 7 yards.

Get your reloading technique down so you have no malfunctions, then practice.

Good Luck.

Yea I've got some finagling to do with my dies. I think I need to check and make sure they fit and reliably load. I'm not claiming to be some hot shot so I'm not too worried about it. I just got this handgun and this is my 2nd time shooting with it so like they say, practice makes perfect!

[Grunt81]

True. Some other advice I can give you would be to focus on the front sight blade. The only thing in focus should be the front sight. Everything else should be blurry, including the target. Keep the front sight perfectly centered in the rear sight. That takes care of windage. For elevation, envision having a wet noodle. You want to be able to lay a noodle horizontally across the top of your sights, to make straight line. The top of the front sight shouldn't be lower or higher than the top of the rear sight. This is called sight alignment. Then, you want to put the tip of the front sight directly on the center point of the bullseye, while maintaining sight alignment.....Seriously, practice doing this from a rest, and you should be having 5-shot clusters in no time when testing for accuracy from 7 yards. When you find the load you want, ditch the rest and blast away to your heart's content. Don't forget a slow, steady trigger squeeze and don't hold your breath for too long at a time as you'll get shaky. Here's an image to help clear up what I'm saying.



For pistol ammo, I like the Lee Pro Auto Disk powder measure that screws into the expander/flaring die. The preset disks are in increments of 0.2 - 0.4 grains. It meters perfectly with a ball powder and small flake powder. You'll find a load you like doing it this way and it's fast enough for me. I used to accuracy tests in 0.1 grain increments. Now the with Lee Auto measure, I just let the disks dictate which loads I test within reason.

[Grunt81]

By the way, I know it sounds crazy, but I did a similar test with my Glock. The very first 9mm reloads I ever made, were cycled through my Glock to make sure they would chamber....live rounds, through a pistol, in my apartment. Glocks won't fire without pulling the trigger but it was still pointed in a safe direction.

I didn't have enough sense back then to have bought a bullet puller. I have a Lyman Inertia bullet puller and it works great. 9mm bullets are super easy to bang out. Go ahead and make 10 dummy rounds...no primer or powder, just resized brass and seated bullet to cycle through the pistol. Having jams is frustrating as hell at the range.

[Scottie15]

Another note - over crimping plated bullets can kill accuracy. Pull a few of your loaded rounds to confirm you haven't crimped through the plating.

[huckberry668]

What was this test to yield? There are so many fundamentals seemingly missing that I'm sure the result is of value.

1. Ladder test isn't used at 7 yards. high power rifle ladder tests are usually done at 300 yards or beyond to find the sweet spots where incremental powder charge range is least sensitive to vertical dispersion.

2. Action shooting in terms of competition will need to consider 'power factor'. Info provide doesn't tell us enough to comment on.

3. Action shooting stages shoots more than 7 yards. The accuracy potential of your ammo is only 1 part. It has to be good enough from at least 25 yards.

4. I'm not surprised if your Shadow shoots 2" groups at 25 yards. but loading the ammo too long is a guaranteed way of producing malfunctions.