Herc2400 powder same as Aliant2400?

[golfnut22]

I was given can of Hercules2400 powder. Doing some research Ive come across Aliant buying out Hercules and the Aliant 2400 is the same powder as the Hercules2400? If thats the case does anyone have a recipe for 45lc?

[pacrat]

I was given can of Hercules2400 powder. Doing some research Ive come across Aliant buying out Hercules and the Aliant 2400 is the same powder as the Hercules2400? If thats the case does anyone have a recipe for 45lc?

Yes, they are same. Alliant bought out Hercules. IMO, 2400 is to be used in near max loads only. Does not work well at lower pressures. Incomplete ignition and lost of unburned powder left in the gun to wank up the works.

JM2c

[3RDGEARGRNDRR]

From the Alliant webiste

[tujungatoes]

Yes, they are same. Alliant bought out Hercules. IMO, 2400 is to be used in near max loads only. Does not work well at lower pressures. Incomplete ignition and lost of unburned powder left in the gun to wank up the works.

JM2c

Wrong on both counts.

1. They are not the same. They are very similar, but should not be considered interchangeable. Powders change from lot to lot, and even more over time. The data in new manuals was developed for the new powder. Use only load data specifically for Herc 2400. If the OP can't find the correct data I can check a few of my old manuals.

2. I disagree I've had great success with 2400(alliant) in reduced power cast bullet rifle loads.

[pacrat]

Wrong on both counts.

1. They are not the same. They are very similar, but should not be considered interchangeable. Powders change from lot to lot, and even more over time. The data in new manuals was developed for the new powder. Use only load data specifically for Herc 2400. If the OP can't find the correct data I can check a few of my old manuals.

2. I disagree I've had great success with 2400(alliant) in reduced power cast bullet rifle loads.

[1] Everyone who has ever read a reloading manual already knows lot to lot variations are a factor, especially as you say "over time". Standard safety practices always apply.

[2] How many cast bullet reduced 45 lc loads have you used in your rifle?

I also use 2400 in bottleneck cartridges. [221 Fireball] Whole diff. ball game than a straight wall pistol cartridge.

Apples v Oranges

Even reduced rifle loads are still far above reduced straight wall pistol pressures and burn times giving a more complete burn.

[tujungatoes]

1. Standard safety practice is to never substitute data from one powder for another. yet here you are encouraging someone to do just that.

2. I mainly use unique for my 45lc loads. Although I have used 2400 in the past. The majority of my 2400 experience for CB's is in 7.62x39, 54r, and 303brit. Perhaps that's why I've not encountered the issues you have. I still disagree with your vague blanket statement. It's difficult to compare apples to apples when you didn't say that's what we were talking about.

[pacrat]

1. Standard safety practice is to never substitute data from one powder for another. yet here you are encouraging someone to do just that.

2. I mainly use unique for my 45lc loads. Although I have used 2400 in the past. The majority of my 2400 experience for CB's is in 7.62x39, 54r, and 303brit. Perhaps that's why I've not encountered the issues you have. I still disagree with your vague blanket statement. It's difficult to compare apples to apples when you didn't say that's what we were talking about.

[1] Alliant says it is the same powder. Just as Hodgdon says their IMR powders are the same. I encouraged no one to do as you claim and substitue different powder data

Safety SOP is to always start low and work up loads when using a different powder or even a different lot #. I did not, nor would I, suggest anyone bypass this step in safe loading practices.

[2] refering to BOLD.........OP specifically mentioned {45lc} application. A straight walled pistol cartridge. Considered to be a {low pressure} cartridge from BP days. {APPLE} I have no doubt it would work well in [HOT] 45 lc loads in a modern revolver. Hence my reply.

Does not work well at lower pressures. Incomplete ignition and lots of unburned powder left in the gun to wank up the works.

It was not me who introduced the {ORANGES} aka "bottleneck rifle cartridges" into the discussion.


Alliant seems to agree with me as did Herc before them, as both list it as a MAGNUM pistol powder.

JM2c

[tujungatoes]

OP specifically mentioned {45lc} application. A straight walled pistol cartridge. Considered to be a {low pressure} cartridge from BP days. {APPLE} I have no doubt it would work well in [HOT] 45 lc loads in a modern revolver. Hence my reply.

JM2c

Goddamnit...You are absolutely right. I totally spaced on the OP being 45LC specific. I suck.


Golfnut22 I'll look through my old books and dig up some herc2400 45lc loads for you.

[pacrat]

Goddamnit...You are absolutely right. I totally spaced on the OP being 45LC specific. I suck.

Maybe so, yet I don't believe you sucked on purpose. At my age I call it brainfarting when I miss something because my thoughts are moving faster than my reading speed.

Then again, I blame a lot of different goofs on brainfarts. Oldsters perogative.

Everything you said about 2400s qualities and varied uses is correct.

JM2c

[BigBronco]

Golfnut22. The 2400 powder was supposedly reformulated and is not the same as the older stock. For example in 44 mag the older powder was loaded at 24gr. under a 240gr bullet. Now the safe maximum is set for 22gr. That being said the newer powder has a higher pressure than the older powder. Logic would dictate that modern load books data would be safe to use with older 2400 since the older ones had a higher charge allowable.

Now as for 45LC my vintage manuals prior to Speer #9 show no loads for the 45LC. Number 9 and up show it only for use in Contenders and Ruger firearms. Before I can give specific data for your loads first, what firearm are you going to shoot them through and what bullet will you be loading.

Final note should you be firing your loads in other than a TC or a Ruger I can no longer participate in this thread, as you are heading into "At your own risk" territory.

[Cowboy T]

I use Alliant 2400 in a Ruger/TC-only load for .45LC. It is quite stout, about equivalent to .44M pressures. Matter of fact, just as a sanity/paranoia check, since .44M has a bit less powder capacity than the .45LC case, I cross-checked the Ruger/TC .45LC loads with starting and max .44M loads. The .44M loads were just slightly less.

Therefore, I started with a midrange .44M load and worked up, ending up with, as I mentioned, a good 'n' stout load. This is being shot in a Super Redhawk 454, which will easily handle such a load and more.

The same procedure should work just as well for the older, i. e. Hercules, 2400. I, too, have heard that while the burn rate is very similar between Hercules and modern Alliant 2400, the formulation has changed over the years. So, as always, start low and work up.

BTW, 2400 is one of those magnum handgun powders that actually downloads reasonably well, unlike H110/W296. This is why I like 2400; it's remarkably flexible. Pretty much as long as you stay above 18,000 to 20,000 PSI with it, you'll be OK.