What is it with 223 and primers?

[runway1]

Using CCI-41 primers and a mixed batch of range brass. Rarely does a primer go in smoothly. I stop using my Dillon for 223 because of this. Is it the CCI primers? 90% go in rough and 8% don't at all and get all buggered up.

I know the military brass is crimped but others aren't. Most seem to have an interior ring of some sort in the pocket. Anyhow, anybody have this experience? Are the other primers easier or should I buy prepped brass?? Thanks all!

[baih777]

Using CCI-41 primers and a mixed batch of range brass. Rarely does a primer go in smoothly. I stop using my Dillon for 223 because of this. Is it the CCI primers? 90% go in rough and 8% don't at all and get all buggered up.

I know the military brass is crimped but others aren't. Most seem to have an interior ring of some sort in the pocket. Anyhow, anybody have this experience? Are the other primers easier or should I buy prepped brass?? Thanks all!

Did you swage the crimped primer pockets on the crimped brass ? Or use the reamer ?

[devster55]

I would buy a swager and use it on all of my brass before reloading it after you deprime it.

[highpower790]

CCI primers have a thicker cup.If your going to use these ,use them when brass is at the end of its life and primers pockets may have stretched some.

[baih777]

Are you using 223 or 556 brass.
I am using CCI #41 on once fired brass.

[maxx03]

I was having the same problem even after swaging. I found that if I uniform all primer pockets the problem seemed to go away. I use a RCBS case prep station.

[sl0re10]

Using CCI-41 primers and a mixed batch of range brass. Rarely does a primer go in smoothly. I stop using my Dillon for 223 because of this. Is it the CCI primers? 90% go in rough and 8% don't at all and get all buggered up.

I know the military brass is crimped but others aren't. Most seem to have an interior ring of some sort in the pocket. Anyhow, anybody have this experience? Are the other primers easier or should I buy prepped brass?? Thanks all!

I had the most trouble with CCIs. I've also never had one pierce so I'm speculating they're tough metal that's the reason (they won't bend to fit into the space available).

They seat fine when the pocket is swagged right... so I personally would still use them / they're on my gtg list. I'd set any cases aside that resist seating and work on their pockets.

[bsumoba]

Never had problems with CCI. You might simply need to clean the primer pockets more. Any residue in the primer pockets prevents the primer pockets from seating as far down as you would typically expect them to seat.

You also need to swage/ream out those primer pockets if they are mil brass or pickup brass, which most of that stuff is mil brass.

CCI #41's are a little tougher as far as the primer cups go, but that was more to prevent slam fires in ARs

[micro911]

I have had some issues with certain primers. However, I primarily use Federal match primers now and never had an issue.

[jdmstuff]

I've never had an issue with #41 primers in my Dillon. Make sure that you're swaging and also that the shell plate is properly aligned over the priming arm. Also, make sure you're using the correct shell plate and adjust the paperclip thing to provide the right amount of tension on the case.

[TMcC]

Using CCI-41 primers and a mixed batch of range brass.
...
Most seem to have an interior ring of some sort in the pocket.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=920491

https://www.ch4d.com/

[samcam13]

I clean and swage all the pockets on my lyman case prep center. CCI 41 take the most effort, seems like winchester go in the softest on the dillon. Using my old single RCBS priming station doesn't seem to matter as much, they all go in pretty easy.

[bigedp51]

Remington ran Lake City Army Ammunition Plant from 1941 till 1985 and didn't use CCI #41 primers, Remington used their 7 1/2 primers in the 5.56 ammunition loaded at Lake City. This was decided during the testing phase of the M16 rifle and its ammunition.

Winchester ran Lake City from 1985 till 2001 and didn't use CCI #41 primers.

When Alliant Techsystems (ATK) got the contract to produce ammunition in 2001 they convinced the military they needed a new primer. The new primer is the same as the CCI 450 magnum primer with a shorter anvil that requires more force to set it off.

The only problem the military had during the testing phase of the M16 rifle related to this topic were a few slam fires when a single round was loaded "without" the magazine in place to slow down the bolt velocity. The cure for this wasn't the CCI #41 primer the actual cure for the slam fire problem was to make the firing pin lighter thus reducing its mass, which the military did reducing the slam fire probability to one in 10,000,000 chance of having a slam fire.

CCI #34 and #41 primers are nothing more than a way for ATK to charge the Government and "YOU" more money for something you do not need.

The Remington 7 1/2 primer is call the baby flame thrower because it was designed to light off the Winchester double base ball powders that have more deturent coatings than single base powders used at Lake City.







Now go look at your reloading manuals and show me any manual for service rifle loadings that lists a CCI #34 and #41 primer as recommended or even listed in the manual.

So again ask yourself how the U.S. Military got by with standard primers on the M1 Garand, M14 and M16 rifles long before ATK invented a "new" primer to sell to the Government and gullible civilians.

And last but not least you can use pin gauges to check your crimped primer pockets after swaging or reaming the primer pockets, "BEFORE" screwing up good primers in primer pockets with the crimp improperly removed.



And a Lee depriming tool can be used to check your seated primers, if you can push the primer out of the primer pocket with just finger pressure the case is junk and goes in my scrap brass bucket.



I use a RCBS primer pocket reamer designed for their case prep station, as you can see the reamer is tapered and will not scratch or gouge the primer pocket walls. This reamer has a positive stop and you can not over ream the primer pocket.



The "seating effort" will depend on the primer pocket and the diameter of the primers you are using, and if you are having a hard time seating your primers you didn't totally remove the crimp.
And the recommended cup thickness for primers in the AR15 rifle to prevent slam fires are the cups .025 in thickness.

[MrElectric03]

I have this problem as well here and there. I swage the brass but it seems every once in a while one doesn't get swaged quite enough. I get maybe a 1:50 ratio between needing reamed and primer seats nicely. I load on an xl650 so I'm just careful when priming. If it hangs up I'll pull the case out and use a reamer to take the flat edge off and leave a taper. I then put the case back in and prime it.

[Enfield47]

It's definitely sounds like a crimp removal issue. Once you get rid of the crimp, the problem will go away. I ran into this problem on some brass that didn't get swaged enough. On those caeses I used a #2 Phillips bit in an electric drill and cut the crimp out and the everything worked fine after that. Now I properly swage all my .233/5.56 brass and haven't had any further issues seating the primers. I use the CCI #41 primers too.