Crimping and Plunk Test

[dodgeit101]

I shot my first reloads and it was great, now I just have to fine tune my dies to make sure I stop getting failures to return to battery.

When I was shooting, some of my rounds would fail to go completely into battery. I did a little push on the slide and it would be fine. From what I've been reading I need to increase the crimp.

I did the plunk test with my rounds and most of them fit flush but any barely of them seat below the barrel rim. I also realized that the bullets were kind of difficult to get out so I had to pull them out with my fingers. Does that mean I'm not crimping enough or i'm over crimping? They should be able to fall freely from the barrel correct?

I'm not entirely sure if i'm over crimping but I can see the ring where the crimp is. From what I read I am over crimping, but how do I know if i'm crimping enough? To me it's not a very big ring but from another thread people were saying it was too much. I only have calipers to measure and sometimes I got measurement for .472 to 4725. How can I increase the crimp to get around .470? I'm using the Lee 4 die set so the crimping is on a separate die.

I'll take some pictures when I get home but I only have an iphone so the details aren't going to be great.

Any advice would be helpful thanks.

[billrd]

I shot my first reloads and it was great, now I just have to fine tune my dies to make sure I stop getting failures to return to battery.

When I was shooting, some of my rounds would fail to go completely into battery. I did a little push on the slide and it would be fine. From what I've been reading I need to increase the crimp.

I did the plunk test with my rounds and most of them fit flush but any barely of them seat below the barrel rim. I also realized that the bullets were kind of difficult to get out so I had to pull them out with my fingers. Does that mean I'm not crimping enough or i'm over crimping? They should be able to fall freely from the barrel correct?

I'm not entirely sure if i'm over crimping but I can see the ring where the crimp is. From what I read I am over crimping, but how do I know if i'm crimping enough? To me it's not a very big ring but from another thread people were saying it was too much. I only have calipers to measure and sometimes I got measurement for .472 to 4725. How can I increase the crimp to get around .470? I'm using the Lee 4 die set so the crimping is on a separate die.

I'll take some pictures when I get home but I only have an iphone so the details aren't going to be great.

Any advice would be helpful thanks.

Just go deeper into the taper crimp die - it is "TAPERED" so crimp amount (case diameter) should gradually decrease the farther you go. Also the rounds should drop freely into the chamber and fall out the same way.

[noylj]

The bullets should not have been difficult to remove. This again, the cartridges should not have been difficult to remove.
If you do the plunk test and they all drop in and go "PLUNK" and they all fall out when you turn the barrel upside down, you shouldn't have a problem
To determine your problem, take a cartridge that does not plunk and drop out or chamber easily (this should have been done with inert dummy rounds when you were setting up the dies prior to loading). Mark up the bullet and case with a black marker (Sharpee or Magic Marker are the official markers for hand loaders). Paint them completely.
Drop cartridge in barrel and rotate it back-and-forth once or twice and remove.
There should be "scratches" on the "paint" where the interference is. Based on location, you can determine the problem:
1) Scratches on the bullet--COL is too long and bullet is hitting the lede/leade/rifling.
2) Scratches on the case mouth--taper crimp is insufficient and you still have case mouth flare to remove.
3) Scratches just below the case mouth--too much flare. Case has been bulged from over crimping.
4) Scratches on case at the bullet base--bullet seated crooked. Be sure your expanding die opens up the case ID sufficiently. Be sure your seating stem fits the bullet. Be sure your case mouth flare is sufficient to hold the bullet in the locked-and-upright position for seating
5) Scratches down near the extractor groove--case has bulge that was not "ironed out" by the sizing die. Sometimes, the bulge will be ironed out, but it will form a raised ridge that also interferes with chambering. Get a Lee Bugle Buster if one is made for your cartridge.

[Bastard]

are you loading on a single stage or progressive?

are you sure that you are sizing properly, check the OAL as well. as for over crimping, all you really need to do is remove the bell.


those are all places to start, as well as what noylj suggested

[dodgeit101]

It's a Lee Turret Press. OAL is fine. They're around 1.25 or so. I'm not worried about that. I'm pretty sure my problem is more due to the crimping. I'm just not sure on the crimping as it's really hard to see where the error is.

['ol shooter]

Load a dummy round, paint the outside of the case with Dykem or a Magic Marker. Insert case fully into barrel, remove case, look for marks that indicate interference. As others have stated, the problem is either not fully sizing or not enough crimp. I use a case gauge for 9mm and .45 ACP, checking sizing, crimp, and case length all in one step. I check 10% of my loads at a given session. Good luck.

[bruce381]

""They're around 1.25 or so""

depending on bullet that maybe too long, check it.

[Kmai24]

I believe from your crimp measurements you are loading for 45acp correct? ".472" is a good crimp but your oal may be a tad on the long side. Quick rule of thumb for OAL for 45acp is..
12345
1.23=45

[dodgeit101]

I'm using 200gr SWC from Black Bullet International. From what I was told the OAL for my recipe was fine, I was just following the load data I found. I'm still new so I might make some adjustment to it later on but feeding wise it seems to go into chamber alright, it just doesn't want to go completely into battery.

I'll test again and run another 200 rounds or so with new crimping.

[Enfield47]

What type of pistol are you using? Is it a 1911? If so, you may have problems with bullets that are not round nose because of the feed ramp. Not saying this is your problem, but something to consider if you run into feeding problems.

[bigbossman]

I'm using 200gr SWC from Black Bullet International. From what I was told the OAL for my recipe was fine, I was just following the load data I found. I'm still new so I might make some adjustment to it later on but feeding wise it seems to go into chamber alright, it just doesn't want to go completely into battery.

If they are not dropping freely in and out of your barrel chamber when you are testing then either your crimp is not tapered enough, or else there is some schmutz or lead residue at the far end of the chamber that is binding things up. Also make sure the case head is flush with the barrel hood - if it is too long seat the bullet a bit deeper.

To increase the crimp, turn the die in a little bit at a time and load dummy rounds to measure. If you turn the die in too much, you'll likely buckle the brass..... then you've gone too far.

I'm using the same weight lead 200gr SWC (mine are Laser-cast and Missouri), and all my bullets drop in and out easily. my crimps measure .471-.472, and COAL is right about 1.23 to 1.24. I use a Lee 3 die set on a Pro 1000, so my bullet seating and crimping are done on one die.

[dodgeit101]

Figured crimping is the issue. Just wanted to confirm with more experience people. I increased the crimp slightly and the rounds fall out of the barrel now.

[croue]

I had issues with crimping on my last batch. I set for a light crimp as recommended, and I had some difficulty with feeding like you did. I also had a few rounds in which I could slide the bullet in the case with moderate finger pressure. Even had a squib at the range. The rangemaster took a look at my ammo and pointed out that the case mouth seemed a bit more 'catchy' than a factory round. diagnosis: Inadequate crimp. I took out the 'bell', but that isn't really enough apparently.

I tried to get some pics to show the problematic taper and my reworked taper. Basically, I took the problem rounds and put two of them under the microscope side by side and the problem rounds were perfectly straight - no gaps between the case mouths. two straight walls that could have been used as a straightedge if they were bigger.

Then I looked at factory rounds and saw a slight gap between the case mouths. I reworked the ammo with a nearly full turn on the crimp die (Lee 'factory crimp' die) and saw a slight gap at the case mouths. This is an easy inspection if you have good eyes or a microscope in your garage as I do (engineering geek, can't help it). Putting two side by side makes the gap double the actual variation. You can measure it with a caliper of course, but this old shop trick makes small gaps big and easy to eyeball without digging out the caliper every time. Much easier to see sub-mil variances this way than to measure them accurately.

I am 100% inspecting my crimps until I get several hundred rounds through without a squib. The squib was in my buddies barrel. Very embarassing and not cool to put his gun at risk for what was such a stupid mistake.

The manuals all warned about the dangers of overcrimping. But undercrimping has its dangers as well.

C

[jonzer77]

The black bullets 200gr LSWC looks like it they are made from a H&G #68 clone mold so you should be just fine with loading to 1.250. I would follow noylj's post and you will get it figured out.