223 head space issues

[jdubrr]

New to reloading and so far I've loaded approx 1,000 rounds of pistol ammo. Having a hard time with 223, specifically with getting the correct head space.

I am using a Hornady LNL with Hornady full length 223 dies.
After I tumble, case lube I go to deprime/resize and I'm not getting consistent results. I have a case gauge to check for proper head space and some of the brass checks out and some do not I bought Lake city once fired brass and did a search here and most people are not having issues with it. Do I have the dies setup improperly?

I have the die turned down so that it touches the shell plate, then I gave it another 1/2 turn and then another 1/2 turn, but I am still getting some brass that does not sit flush in the gauge.

Thoughts?

[bsumoba]

i had this problem with my 308 AR which has a JP Supermatch barrel. I use their case gauge because it is a near identical match to the chamber in my barrel. I was using a Lee rezing die initially.

Because it is a match chamber, meaning it has a much tighter tolerance, thus requiring a SMALL BASE DIE in order to resize properly.

What die and barrel do you have? JP's case gauge is much tighter than others, FYI. I would suggest getting a small base die (RCBS is what I have).

Use a good lube: Imperial, Lanolin/Alcohol mix, etc. I dont recommend HOrnady One Shot as i have had problems with this lube for small base dies. Thats my experience only.

You should have no problems after that.

Cheers.

[ocabj]

Brass not seating flush in one of those case gauges might not be a headspace issue. It could also be a deformation in the brass somewhere causing it hang up in the gauge.

You should get one of these, too: http://www.hornady.com/store/Lock-N-...h-Body-1-Each/

[J-cat]

R u lubing the inside of the case neck? If not the expander will pull the shoulders forward, changing the shoulder angle, and altering headspace.

[mike.h]

i had this problem with my 308 AR which has a JP Supermatch barrel. I use their case gauge because it is a near identical match to the chamber in my barrel. I was using a Lee rezing die initially.

Because it is a match chamber, meaning it has a much tighter tolerance, thus requiring a SMALL BASE DIE in order to resize properly.

What die and barrel do you have? JP's case gauge is much tighter than others, FYI. I would suggest getting a small base die (RCBS is what I have).

Use a good lube: Imperial, Lanolin/Alcohol mix, etc. I dont recommend HOrnady One Shot as i have had problems with this lube for small base dies. Thats my experience only.

You should have no problems after that.

Cheers.

this, a small base die may solve your problem.

[Carcassonne]

It could be the brass base is over expanded and the sizing die doesn't go all the way to the bottom to correct it. You could easily compare the base of the one that fits and the one that doesn't fit.

Another die station in your LNL-AP press could be preventing the ram from going all the way to the top of the stroke. If you do not have a progressive press, this wouldn't be a problem.

The internal base height might be thicker on some and the primer extractor rod is bottoming out and preventing the ram from going to the top of its stroke.


.

[bsumoba]

lets not overcomplicate it for this guy...

He's using a JP case gauge...a gauge that was created for the JP supermatch barrel chamber, which is a match chamber that is super tight. You must use a small base die to get the minimum case dimensions to fit into this gauge. that being said, if he has a non-match chamber or not using the supermatch barrel from JP, then he might get away with it and a wilson case gauge might be more appropriate for a normal barrel.

however, a lot of guys recommend to use a small base die for semi-autos so there is minimum issues during feeding anyways. the only drawback is that brass will be work hardened faster.

[thenodnarb]

have you trimmed the cases?

[bigedp51]

jdubrr

Turn the probmatic cases upside down and insert the case base first into your JP case gauge and see if the base fits. Most likely you have a extractor ding in the rim of the case preventing the case from dropping into the gauge.

As you can see below it can happen even with a standard case gauge that is a few thousandths larger in diameter. Having a small fine file to remove the dings on your reloading bench is a must with military type semi-automatics.

This very same type ding can cause the case to tilt on the down stroke of the press and cause increased neck runout. Meaning rub your finger around the rim and look for these defects.



On once fired brass fired in a larger diameter military chamber you should size the brass with a small base die. My small base dies are only .0005 smaller in diameter than standard dies, "BUT" they size further down the case and return the case to SAAMI minimum case diameter.

Also remember brass spring back after full length resizing, when resizing I pause four seconds at the top of the ram stroke to let the brass know who's the boss and to stay put after sizing.

After this a normal sizing die may be used with ammo fired in military type chambers with their larger diameter. (.002 larger than SAAMI standards)

Next get rid of the case gauges and get a Hornady cartridge case headspace gauge. This way you can measure your fired cases and only bump the shoulders back .002 to .005.



I now use my Wilson case gauges for pen holders and paper weights.



When measuring case headspace length with the Hornady gauge any dings in the rim will not effect the case measurment and the case gauge can then be used to check the loaded round for chamber fit and dings in the rim..

[Dutch Henry]

^^^+1 I think the above reply may be the best answer.
I've had the same problem so nowadays I sort my brass and discard cases with deformities on the rim. Some of the shooters in our group use Mini-14's and they tend to tweak the rims more than most AR15's; many aren't salvageable.

[jdubrr]

R u lubing the inside of the case neck? If not the expander will pull the shoulders forward, changing the shoulder angle, and altering headspace.

Yes, Lube in the neck

[jdubrr]

have you trimmed the cases?

No, I don't trim until after I resize/deprime. The one's in the pix above have not been trimmed

[jdubrr]

lets not overcomplicate it for this guy...

He's using a JP case gauge...a gauge that was created for the JP supermatch barrel chamber, which is a match chamber that is super tight. You must use a small base die to get the minimum case dimensions to fit into this gauge. that being said, if he has a non-match chamber or not using the supermatch barrel from JP, then he might get away with it and a wilson case gauge might be more appropriate for a normal barrel.

however, a lot of guys recommend to use a small base die for semi-autos so there is minimum issues during feeding anyways. the only drawback is that brass will be work hardened faster.

I am not using a match barrel.

[jdubrr]

jdubrr

Turn the probmatic cases upside down and insert the case base first into your JP case gauge and see if the base fits. Most likely you have a extractor ding in the rim of the case preventing the case from dropping into the gauge.

As you can see below it can happen even with a standard case gauge that is a few thousandths larger in diameter. Having a small fine file to remove the dings on your reloading bench is a must with military type semi-automatics.

This very same type ding can cause the case to tilt on the down stroke of the press and cause increased neck runout. Meaning rub your finger around the rim and look for these defects.



On once fired brass fired in a larger diameter military chamber you should size the brass with a small base die. My small base dies are only .0005 smaller in diameter than standard dies, "BUT" they size further down the case and return the case to SAAMI minimum case diameter.

Also remember brass spring back after full length resizing, when resizing I pause four seconds at the top of the ram stroke to let the brass know who's the boss and to stay put after sizing.

After this a normal sizing die may be used with ammo fired in military type chambers with their larger diameter. (.002 larger than SAAMI standards)

Next get rid of the case gauges and get a Hornady cartridge case headspace gauge. This way you can measure your fired cases and only bump the shoulders back .002 to .005.



I now use my Wilson case gauges for pen holders and paper weights.



When measuring case headspace length with the Hornady gauge any dings in the rim will not effect the case measurment and the case gauge can then be used to check the loaded round for chamber fit and dings in the rim..

I've read many threads suggesting the use of small base dies, and I think I'll look into this along with a Hornady cartridge case headspace gauge.


Thanks for all the help guys!!

[jdubrr]

Any recommendations on which Brand of Small base dies to use in my Hornady LNL AP press?

OK, looks like only option for SB dies is the RCBS will these work with my current shell plate?