25 rem headspace solution?

[h.charlie]

I have reloaded this many many times and never have had this problem, I believe it is a headspace problem cause on some rounds the primer is backing out with no pressure signs, the load I was using was 23gn of imr 3031 with br large rifle primers capped with 117gn btsp or Rn. Col 2.575 for the Rn and 2.715 for the btsp. I was wondering if I can remedy it by using the btsp to properly headspace the case the col would be 2.730 and the bullets would just be snug against the lands is this even safe any links, info or thought appericated

[buzzardbait]

The .25 rem case headspaces on the shoulder of the brass, not at the bullet. Case length should be 2.050 with a trim to 2.040. Max overall length with bullet is 2.525. If the case is too long, it cannot expand to release the bullet, raising pressure. If the bullet is jammed against the rifling, there is not the freebore that the designers intended, and again you are raising pressure. The powder charge is correct, about middle of min and max. perhaps check the scale with a set of weights. Good luck!

[h.charlie]

Yes you are correct, don't like to trim down that far, never have found a reloading book with 25 rem in it to get a trim length, but the problem is, these are necked down from 30 rem so the shoulder I'm guessing is pushed back or something causing the primer to back out? It's from my understanding that reducing a load a few grains and seating the bullet to touch the rifling is a common way to gain better grouping but in this case could allow the shoulder to be pushed back into the right spot? Idk I've shot reloads out of this many times this is the first I have had that the primer is backing out. Do I toss the brass or can it be fixed? What I do know is that using a btsp in a gun that was designed for a Rn is going to have a longer overall length cause of the longer secant ogive, like I said I have never had a reloading manual with 25 rem what I have used is based of 25-35 winchester and my own load building, do you think dropping the load down to 20.5 gn and allowing it to touch the lands is safe I have shot them with the btsp col at 2.715 and a charge of 23 gn?

[buzzardbait]

I load 30 rem, and some of my cases are necked down .32 rem. We use what we can!
The case length is the same for .25, 30 and .32 rem. But your brass grows with each firing, and needs to be trimmed. Also, I assume that this is being shot from a Model 14 or 81 rifle. These are hunting and not benchrest rifles. In my opinion you will get more accuracy results from slightly changing your powder load or even powder type, than increasing the loaded cartridge length beyond max.

I load a few obsolete calibers and have to load some brass far more times than I would in a common and available caliber like 30-06. I really think that trimming the cases and going to the listed oal will solve the problem. Trim them back to the length that they were when you first formed them and your primers will go back to where they were back then.

[h.charlie]

early model 8, There trimmed all below 2.050 I still dont see how case length is causing the primer to be pushed out?

[gunboat]

I think your problem is that 25rem neck is shorter (.400 ) than the 30 rem (.477)so reformed cases will be too short - headspace wise -
I would fire form your cases to fit - bullet seated to touch lands with a medium charge - loaded single shot --
my tuppence

[Witch Hunter]

If you have fired these in our rifle adjust your sizer die to the fired case. This should solve your problem. Your sizer die is setting the shoulder back too far causing the headspace issue. Only size until the action just closes easy, no more, this sets the case to your chamber.

[bigedp51]

All primers will back out of the primer pocket by the amount of head clearance you have, your head clearance goes hand in hand with how far you bump the shoulder back. At low pressures the primer will protrude from the rear of the case because the chamber pressure isn't high enough to push the case against the bolt face.



Below is an animated image of a cartridge being fired, as the pressure builds it forces the primer out of the primer pocket. As the chamber pressure increases it reaches the point where the brass stretches to meet the bolt face. With the minimum amount of shoulder bump because the brass is elastic the case has the ability to spring back to its original size "without" stretching and causing case head separations.



Below is from the Sierra reloading manual.



NOTE: All my 30-30 cases have the primer protruding from the rear of the case because the max chamber pressure is only 38,000 cup or 42,000 psi and this is "NORMAL".

Also the reloading manuals warn you to never use cases that were used for reduced loads with full power loads. The reason for this is the force of the firing pin hitting the primer actually make the case shorter each time the case is fired. And these cases can get as much as .001 shorter each time they are fired.

As a side note as long as your primers are protruding you know that your load is not too hot. So if you make a work up load just watch your primers until they are flush with the bottom of the case, then as the load is increased watch for signs of high pressure.

Below is a exaggeration of a case being full length resized, pay attention to the blue, red and green dotted lines and the words "shoulder setback" and setting up your dies.



Buy the Hornady cartridge case headspace gauge and measure your fired cases and only bump the shoulders back .001 to .002.



Remington 14A in 25 Remington link below (castboolits forum with load data)

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?133638-Remington-14A-in-25-Remington