Thinking about Reloading, Single Stage Press (Lee) vs Progressive (Dillon 650)

[rsrocket1]

If you were wishing to do a lot of reloading (which you probably eventually wind up doing when your ammo gets to be so cheap), then you should go
single stage -> progressive

Turret is OK if you don't intend to upgrade, but if you do, the single stage is a better choice.

You will always find a use for a single stage press whether it is for swaging crimped primer pockets, sizing lead bullets, loading rifle rounds. You can still do these on a turret with the advance bar disconnected, but you've spent a bit more than you needed to for a single stage press.

The advantage of the turret is that you are better off now than you are with a single stage press and if you are happy with your output rate, you don't need to spend any more money except for additional calibers.

I went from buying a LnL AP to buying a Breechlock Challenger then starting out with it until I was ready for the progressive (about 3 weeks). I am still using the SS press all the time for the above functions.

[brettkeating]

I calculated it with buying the brass. It's more around 10k if I can collect my own. It was a rough estimate with expensive components that I just took off the internet. I put down the price as ~$1500 because I wanted to add the .223 and .45 die price together.

If I was only reloading .45, without buying brass. It comes down to 6k to get the return on investment. Math isn't exact but I think I considered what was needed to see ROI.

Keep in mind that you will be re-using the brass you buy, so you would amortize the brass cost over several reloads.

You can probably buy brass for .20 per round, maybe a little cheaper. Powder, primer and bullet... maybe add another 15 cents. So you're probably thinking, 35 cents per round, right? You'd just about break even. There is 45 ACP ammo for 30 cents per round on ammoseek right now as I speak.

But really, your 45 ACP brass will last forever. You'll be far more likely to lose one than have one split.

Suppose you buy 500 pieces of brass, don't lose any ever, and end up just reloading those. Initial cost of the brass is then around $100.

At 15 cents savings for each reload (assuming 15 cents for primer/powder/bullet and 30 cents per ACP round bought new), you're looking at:

$100 + 0.15x = $1500. So really, at a maximum, you're looking more at something like 9000 rounds of ACP to recoup the investment. That is compared to the cheapest 45ACP ammo you can buy... so your savings are actually more than that and it will take fewer rounds.

[357magnum]

I got my first press 24+ years ago, RCBS Rock Chucker single stage.
Still have and use it all the time.
I load for 5 different calibers, never been in a hurry to put out thousands of rounds at a time.
Reloading to me is a hobby, relaxing and satisfying.
I like the end results of a fine finished product, that I did myself and meets all my shooting needs.
I have never run out of ammo to shoot, even when I shot competition years ago.
Overall reloading is fun and educational, I still learn new things and try to keep up with new trends.
Best of luck reloading, and always be safe.

[Shinne]

My numbers are 6563 (buying brass), 11523 (reusing). I misspoke earlier on 23,000 that was for 223. The point that I was trying to get across is that. The ROI for the dillon wouldn't be seen as soon as if I get a Lee.

Keep in mind that you will be re-using the brass you buy, so you would amortize the brass cost over several reloads.

You can probably buy brass for .20 per round, maybe a little cheaper. Powder, primer and bullet... maybe add another 15 cents. So you're probably thinking, 35 cents per round, right? You'd just about break even. There is 45 ACP ammo for 30 cents per round on ammoseek right now as I speak.

But really, your 45 ACP brass will last forever. You'll be far more likely to lose one than have one split.

Suppose you buy 500 pieces of brass, don't lose any ever, and end up just reloading those. Initial cost of the brass is then around $100.

At 15 cents savings for each reload (assuming 15 cents for primer/powder/bullet and 30 cents per ACP round bought new), you're looking at:

$100 + 0.15x = $1500. So really, at a maximum, you're looking more at something like 9000 rounds of ACP to recoup the investment. That is compared to the cheapest 45ACP ammo you can buy... so your savings are actually more than that and it will take fewer rounds.

[brettkeating]

For me, I reload for Arisaka 7.7x58, because I own two of those. Bullets cost 32 cents or so. Brass was around 50 cents for new unfired, but figure if I get 5 shots from each conservatively, it's like 10 cents per round. Powder and primers is around 25 cents. So figure 67 cents per round reloaded, versus over 2 bucks for factory ammo. That is, assuming you can find it. I think I bought the last two boxes of Norma ammo in existence a few months ago. If I'm saving $1.33 per round, that is pretty huge. Not to mention the availability problem...

Last weekend I filled over 400 prepped cases on my single stage Rock Chucker, and therefore in one weekend paid not only for the kit (which my wife bought be for Christmas) but also the dies, the trimmer, the vibratory cleaner and the case/media separator, plus room left over for 38 special and 9mm dies.

So for me it was a no brainer cost-wise.

[MrElectric03]

I shoot about the same amount as you do OP, probably more as I reload. I started with a xl650 and really enjoy it. For me the 650 saves a lot of time. I just don't have time to load rounds for all of my guns on a single stage. That said, I needed a single stage and so will you. So if you start on a single stage and find it's not for you you haven't lost a big investment, or if you find it is something your into and want to add a progressive you've wasted nothing.

[uhlan1]

23000 rounds to even out? Are you planning on buying new brass and only firing it once.
My ROI with a LnL with all the accessories wasn't anywhere near that. Not even nuclear weapon close.

[kcheung2]

My break even with a RCBS single stage loading rifle rounds was around 850-950, depending on which caliber I loaded. Easily recovered within the first few months.

[Bumslie]

This excel file will tell you exactly how long it will take to get to break even

http://westernsafellc.com/Reloading.xls

[windrunner]

I have a Dillon XL650 that I use as a progressive when I'm loading grinder ammo and perform single stage functions with it when I'm loading match ammo. All I had to do was order several extra tool heads so that I could set them up the way I wanted for single stage work.

What I just described isn't exclusive to a Dillon product. I'm sure it could be done with any progressive system. Or maybe not. I haven't used other progressives, so take that for what it's worth.

[kcheung2]

My numbers are 6563 (buying brass), 11523 (reusing). I misspoke earlier on 23,000 that was for 223. The point that I was trying to get across is that. The ROI for the dillon wouldn't be seen as soon as if I get a Lee.

Huh? How is it that your breakeven point for buying brass is sooner than for reusing brass?

[Cowboy T]

Have any of you guys tried the Lee Pro 1000 Progressive Press Kit? It seems to come out cheaper then the turret when I add all the stuff together.

Yes, I have two of them, one for small primer cartridges, and the other for large primer cartridges. For me, they've worked out very well. I do the vast majority of my reloading on these two presses, with my single-stage used for resizing my cast boolits (its primary duty nowadays), fixing the occasional errant round, and load development.

Also, to the question of using Lee dies on Dillon presses, Jeff Quinn over at GunBlast.com does just that. He has the full complement of Lee dies, with the Auto-Disk Powder Measure, on his RL-550B and gets fine results from this setup. He demonstrated it when doing an evaluation of the then-fairly-new (heck, *still* relatively new!) Trail Boss powder, and it metered very precisely.

But I wouldn't recommend a progressive press--regardless of brand, be it Dillon, Lee, Hornady, or otherwise--to anyone brand-new to reloading. There are those who can jump straight to a progressive, sure. Some folks in this thread have attested to that. But not everyone's mechanically inclined, e. g. my cameralady, who is very intelligent, smart, wise, all that, but wouldn't do well with a progressive press. She uses a Lee Classic Turret and makes great ammo.

[___M|9||___]

Lee turret FTW!

[Germz]

Lol.

Thinking about going single stage lee or dillon 650.

might as well say thinking about going bottom of the barrel or top of the line.

[brettkeating]

As I said, I wish I started with the Lee Turret. And if you look on Amazon, you can get it for under $220 right now along with a kit full of goodies. That's less than my wife paid for my rock chucker kit. Hindsight 20/20 I wish she got this instead. If you have Amazon Prime you can get it in two days with free shipping too. Seriously, you ought to just buy that! The rest of what you need to really be set up properly shouldn't be more than a couple hundred more dollars on top of that. I probably spent over $500 on my tools and setup, and for more than 100 dollars less, I could have had this and have double to triple the handgun output that I have now, and still be just as effective loading rifle ammo.