My head is spinning

[JDR41]

I currently started reloading for my 6.5x284. I have two bolt actions in this caliber and unfortunately have mixed the brass, which I thought shouldn't be a problem since I have used a Hornady full length re-sizing die.

Here we go:

First off I decided to load for my Savage 116 long action 6.5x284 first, so I used my Hornady OAL gauge to find the distance to my lands with the Berger Long Range Target VLD 140 GR Bullets. Per Berger's recommendation seated at four different distances from the landings to try and find the sweat spot starting at .010 off the lands, .050 off, .090 off, and then .130 off, and go from there.

I started with 74 rounds of Norma Factory brass once fired. I have a Hornady single stage press. I re-sized,trimmed,chamfer-debur,flash-hole de-bur, then wet tumbled in stainless steel media rotary tumbler.

Then primed, charged, and seated the bullets.


Went to the range fired 3 rounds and on the fourth round I was unable to close the bolt. The bolt was approximately 1/4" back and the lugs still needed to be push the same 1/4" forward before the bolt could be push down and engage. I extracted the round put in another fired it, then went to the next and again was unable to close the bolt, same thing.

The cartridge this time got stuck as far as it would go in the chamber,so I had to borrow a guys cleaning rod to push the live round out.

I took measurements of everything on the cases that I could of the fired cases and the ones that wouldn't chamber and they were both under SAMMI spec's. I visually compared the shoulders, which says nothing.

Came home and tried them in my other 6.5x284 bolt gun and they won't chamber in that either.

I had set the dies per Hornady's instructions and spoke with a tech at Hornady and he suggest that it might possibly be on the up stroke that the expander may have pulled the shoulder of the case back up due to either carbon build-up or not being lubed enough in the mouth of the cases.

I re-sized the cases without any cleaning or brushing the insides of the mouth, but I did lubricate the insides by spraying a home brew of lubricant mixture of 12 oz of Isopropyl Alcohol 99% with 1 oz liquid Lanolin. Gave them a good coating all over and even in the case mouths.

I guess my next step will be to pull the bullets and powder, deaden and de-prime the primers and start over this time cleaning the mouths with brushes.

If anyone has any other thoughts on this, please chime in as I'm not sure that this is the answer but it sounds like it might be.

[spcfowler]

My first thought was cartridge length, but you did say that you trimmed the brass. Double check your shoulder angles and your resizing die. I had a lot of heartache caused by a 30-06 resizing die from brownell's that was manufactured out-of-spec. They were good about taking it back and replacing it, but still inconvenient and dangerous. Double check you cartridges, but also double check your equipment too.

[twotacocombo]

Take a round that wouldn't chamber, pull the bullet and powder, try to rechamber it (safety first, remember the primer!). If it chambers, you have a bullet seating issue. if it doesn't chamber, you have a sizing issue. Good idea to invest in a cartridge headspace gauge, like the ones Lyman makes. They'll allow you to see at a glance if/where your brass is out of spec before you load it up.

[JDR41]

Hey spcfowler,

Yes I trimmed all of the brass to 2.160 net trim length.

How do you check the angles of the shoulder and the die? I have a digital caliper but not sure if that can be used.

[JDR41]

Hey twotacocombo,

I took one of the cartridges that were seated at .010 off the lands and seated way down to something similar to the factory that I fired and it wouldn't chamber.

Sounds like it probably is a sizing issue, my friend thinks it is the die, but I don't know how to check it.

thanks

[JDR41]

twotacocombo,

I have a Wilson Cartridge case gauge and everything looks within tolerances.

[twotacocombo]

Sounds like it probably is a sizing issue, my friend thinks it is the die, but I don't know how to check it.

Easiest way for checking sizing issues is with the case gauge. It's basically a portable chamber machined to spec. When you drop the case in, you can tell right away if the shoulder is in the wrong place, as the head will either be too far in or out of the gauge. Calipers are ok for measuring length or diameter, but when you start dealing with angles and tapers, a chamber or case gauge comes in handy.

One thing you might want to try is pulling the bullet and powder, fire the primer in a safe manner, then resize it all over again. Try to chamber the case without doing anything else. If it doesn't chamber, pull the decapping pin/expander out, resize, and rechamber. If that doesn't do it, you've got a bad die.

[B W E]

My identical problem (however, with 9mm and 45) was due to the sizing die not being screwed in far enough. Do you have a case gauge? Also, what kind of lock rings do you have on your dies? I loaded up a couple thousand rounds of 9mm and after shooting quite a bit, I started having a bunch fail to chamber. What had happened is that over time (do to lack of constantly staying on top of things) my sizing die had backed out ever so slightly, not giving me a full resize. Hence, the first 1200 or so were fine, the last 800 had about a 5% failure rate. The bright side, for me, was that my 92FS has a roomier chamber, and the ones that don't feed into my M&P feed fine in the 92FS.

I switched the the hornady clamping lock rings and that helped tremendously to keep things in place.

[twotacocombo]

twotacocombo,

I have a Wilson Cartridge case gauge and everything looks within tolerances.

If the case head is within range, and you didn't have to force the cartridge into the gauge, then your problem sounds like it's with bullet seating again. Try covering the bullet in sharpie ink, attempt to chamber it several times, then examine it for any areas of ink that are scratched off.

[OpenSightsOnly]

Do you have the Hornady/Stoney Point cartridge head space gauge?

If not, get 'em.

I currently started reloading for my 6.5x284. I have two bolt actions in this caliber and unfortunately have mixed the brass, which I thought shouldn't be a problem since I have used a Hornady full length re-sizing die.

Here we go:

First off I decided to load for my Savage 116 long action 6.5x284 first, so I used my Hornady OAL gauge to find the distance to my lands with the Berger Long Range Target VLD 140 GR Bullets. Per Berger's recommendation seated at four different distances from the landings to try and find the sweat spot starting at .010 off the lands, .050 off, .090 off, and then .130 off, and go from there.

I started with 74 rounds of Norma Factory brass once fired. I have a Hornady single stage press. I re-sized,trimmed,chamfer-debur,flash-hole de-bur, then wet tumbled in stainless steel media rotary tumbler.

Then primed, charged, and seated the bullets.


Went to the range fired 3 rounds and on the fourth round I was unable to close the bolt. The bolt was approximately 1/4" back and the lugs still needed to be push the same 1/4" forward before the bolt could be push down and engage. I extracted the round put in another fired it, then went to the next and again was unable to close the bolt, same thing.

The cartridge this time got stuck as far as it would go in the chamber,so I had to borrow a guys cleaning rod to push the live round out.

I took measurements of everything on the cases that I could of the fired cases and the ones that wouldn't chamber and they were both under SAMMI spec's. I visually compared the shoulders, which says nothing.

Came home and tried them in my other 6.5x284 bolt gun and they won't chamber in that either.

I had set the dies per Hornady's instructions and spoke with a tech at Hornady and he suggest that it might possibly be on the up stroke that the expander may have pulled the shoulder of the case back up due to either carbon build-up or not being lubed enough in the mouth of the cases.

I re-sized the cases without any cleaning or brushing the insides of the mouth, but I did lubricate the insides by spraying a home brew of lubricant mixture of 12 oz of Isopropyl Alcohol 99% with 1 oz liquid Lanolin. Gave them a good coating all over and even in the case mouths.

I guess my next step will be to pull the bullets and powder, deaden and de-prime the primers and start over this time cleaning the mouths with brushes.

If anyone has any other thoughts on this, please chime in as I'm not sure that this is the answer but it sounds like it might be.

[Arcaporale]

If the case head is within range, and you didn't have to force the cartridge into the gauge, then your problem sounds like it's with bullet seating again. Try covering the bullet in sharpie ink, attempt to chamber it several times, then examine it for any areas of ink that are scratched off.

Yup sounds like a seating issue to me too. Mark up the ogive of the bullet with sharpie and attempt to chamber. Check the ogive for marks. Or just attempt to chamber the round and look closely at the bullet for rifling marks from the lands.

A lot of Savages are notoriously tight chambered. I know mine is for sure, .308 175gr FGMM won't chamber in mine without really jamming the lands (I can feel it when closing the bolt), but boy does she shoot!!

Also take a sized, trimmed case without the bullet and see if that fits in your chamber.

[JDR41]

OpenSightsOnly,

Yes, as I stated in the very begining of my post, that I used my Hornady OAL gauge to measure to the lands for the Berger VLD 140 Gr. Bullets I was going to load.

Hey twotacocombo,

I took one of the cartridges that was seated at .010 off the lands and seated way down to something similar to the factory that I fired and it wouldn't chamber. In other words I seated the bullet as deap as the factory rounds that the once fired brass came from that I was reloading. Plus if you noted in my original post I stated that the first three rounds that were seated just .010 off the landings were chambered and fired with no problem.

This is why my head is spinning as the cartridges fit in the Wilson Cartridge case gauge, but won't chamber.

Its not making sense.

[JDR41]

Please let me clarify something that wasn't clear in my original post.

The first three rounds that did chamber and fired were seated just .010 off the lands as I had previously measured with the Hornady OAL gauge before seating any bullets.

This tells me that it can't be as seating problem as they were the bullets that stuck out the farthest since they were the closest to the lands as the others were .050 off, .090 off and .130 off the lands.

Again the fired cases I put into the Wilson Cartridge Case gauge and they were within tolerances, and the loaded cartridges of all the different seating depths also fit in the Wilson gauge and were within tolerances.

It is almost spooky as I said it is not making sense, someone please help!

[JDR41]

Hey Arcaporale,

What Model Savage is your 308 and have you ever gauged it to see with different bullets how far it is to the lands?

As on all of my Savage Models, 12 FT/R 6.5 x 284, 12 VLP DBM 308, 116 FHVSS 6.5 x284, an my 12 LRP 260 REM all have some distance, so if I wanted to jamb into the lands on some I would have very little bullet to seat.

On these loads I did that were seated .010 off the lands the boatail portion of the bullet was just past the mouth of the case maybe 1/16", so I checked and corrected any runout that I had, surprisingly it was between .003-.005 thousands on a few, but most were between .0 -.003 thousands, I adjusted all to .0 -.002 or better.

Unfortunately it doesn't matter at this point with the problem at hand.

[LynnJr]

You got your brass mixed up between two guns so everything is point towards the base of the case.
The arwea right in front of the web needs more sizing.
If your die isn't making firm contact with your shellholder right now screw it down in baby steps until your brass fits.
If its making full contact and the brass won't chamber get some 80 grit sandpaper and put it on a flat level surface and tape it down.
Now run the shellholder over it in a figure 8 pattern 20-30 times.
This will allow your brass to go higher into the die before your shellholder makes firm contact with your die.