Loading 45-70

[agentzundrcovr]

I'm loading 45-70 for a Marlin Guide gun. I have FMJ soft tip 350 grain bullets, and am wondering two things. Is .458 the correct diameter for copper bullets? I know it is for lead bullets, but I just want to make sure I'm doing this correctly. Also, I can't seem to find any info on powder charges for a 350 grain bullet. I have data for 300 and 400 grain, but no 350. I want to do cowboy loads for my dad, and also some standard charges to take camping with me. Thanks in advance

[Fjold]

Yes, .458 is the correct diameter for jacketed bullets.
Hodgdon website says for lever action rifles and 350 grain bullets:

Varget - 54.0 grains to 60.0C grains for 2013 fps 29,500 CUP

IMR 4064 - 58.0 grains to 62.0C grains for 2085 fps 36,700 CUP

IMR 4895 - 57.5 grains to 61.0C grains for 2026 fps 37,200 CUP

H335 - 54.0 grains to 60.0 grains for 2094 fps 38,800 CUP

H4895 - 53.0 grains to 59.0C grains for 2045 fps 32,900 CUP

IMR 3031 - 56.5 grains to 60.0C grains for 2135 fps 37,100 CUP

Benchmark - 56.0 grains to 60.0C grains for 2092 fps 39,300 CUP

IMR 4198 - 47.0 grains to 50.0 grains for 2131 fps 36,600 CUP

H4198 - 48.5 grains to 54.0 grains for 2191 fps 39,300 CUP

[otteray]

Fjold, with all due respect I don't think those are cowboy loads!
I think he is talking more like 1200 fps or so.

[scrat]

In that case go OG

70 grains plus or minus of Goex 3f

Basicly using up 70 grains of goex 3f. This measured by volume. not weight. you pour in the powder then put a bullet next to the case kinda eyeball to see if its too long or too much powder. if it is thats where you have to take some out. when loading black powder you load up the powder then seat the bullet to the powder. making sure there is no air gap. If you want to reduce you loads. NO problem. load 60 grains of black powder fill the rest with oats or cream of wheat. then seat the bullet to meet the filler.

There is a whole world of difference when shooting black powder for cowboy loads. its really fun recoil is light. At least lighter than smokeless. The smoke is greater and clean up is way easier. Cleaning up black powder involves. Warm soapy water on a bunch of patches run them through the barrel maybe about 5 times. then your done. put a light coat of oil in the barrel. Shooting at night is even better. seeing the flames coming out the barrels.

[otteray]

From Hornady 4th Edition:

1400fps Starting Loads
Powder and Grains
IMR 4198= 32.0
RL-7 = 38.3
IMR 3031 = 45.2
IMR 4064 = 46.2


Ed Harris has written about even far less powerful loads using Bullseye and possibly 2400 or Red Dot powder as well ; but I can't find the info to substantiate that fact right now
.
From the Lee data:
ACC XMP5744 28.8 gr @1327fps, my favorite target load with the Guide Gun!

[otteray]

While all the data we just showed you is good, you really need to verify it by at least calling the the powder manufacturers ballistic person (free.)
The phone number can be found on the company websites.
I have an extensive amount of new and old data books for cross- referencing that I use when developing new loads. Start looking for them in used bookstores.
Never completely trust data from the internet, just use it as a reference.
Also, even while Black Powder reloading is also fairly basic and really, really fun; it too needs to be done correctly with some techniques to prevent a Kaboom!

[agentzundrcovr]

Man, I really need to figure out how to use the net better. Thanks a ton for all the help. The gentleman at wild sports reccomended Hodgson 4895 for my loads, so I'll be making some calls tomorrow and try to get this figured out. Thanks again

[scrat]

Good advice. Especially in black powder. I have been shooting black powder for a long time now. I have shot a lot of different combinations just too too many different types of loads. Black powder is NOT smokeless powder. Black Powder is an Explosive substance. Its impact sensitive, heat sensitive. Time and the elements do not break it down either. I can dump some powder on the cement pour some water on it. leave it outside maybe put a piece of foil over it. so it does not get washed or blown away. come back next year after a year of dew, moisture bugs whatever. If the powder is dry throw a match on it and puff. If you ever really get into black powder shooting though your going to get hooked especially in a 45-70. My future dream gun is a Sharps 45-110

[tteng]

Ebay is great for BP components. You can get willow-charcoal, saltpetre, and sulfur (and mortar and pestle if you want). The recipe is readily available on the net, too. Just be careful when you make your own BP.

[ivanimal]

Lyman's lists hotter loads for the Siamese Mausers and the model 1895. They also have a separate loading for the Ruger #1. I like the 300 grain hollow points. I have been reading that a flat Meplat crushes bone better so I may start loading that for squirrel.

[scrat]

Ebay is great for BP components. You can get willow-charcoal, saltpetre, and sulfur (and mortar and pestle if you want). The recipe is readily available on the net, too. Just be careful when you make your own BP.

Been there done that and its not worth it. All your going to do is get a cheap useless grade bp powder. You need to get a top grade charcoal. From a very reliable source. Most charcoal is active powder. its a medical type powder. Sulfur and saltpeter unless your buying from a very reliable source the stuff sold on ebay is low grade. Then mortar and pestle just dosent do it. I tried CIA method as well. Nothing beats an actuall ball mill. In the end its just easier to go out and buy a 1lbs can of Goex for 17.00.

[tteng]

Well, this is my second time trying it. The first time I used hardwood charcoal, and the resulting BP was bad (in open air, burned half as fast as regular BP). This time around I'm using willow-charcoal (non-activated and supplied from a rocket-hobbyist store via ebay) which is made from softwood and reputed to have more 'umph', we'll see. The saltpetre (garden store stump-remover) is 100% KNO3, based on its MSDS report. The sulfer is medicine-store bought, labeled pure. I'll be making small-batch just to see how it works, first in open-air burn, then mild-loaded 45/70 1873-Trapdoor. If it shoots, then I'd be happy. Most likely I'll go back to store-bought BP after all it's said and done, mainly for the safety.

[Jarhead]

who is a good source for a beginner BP shooter in the Inland Empire? Powder, lead bullets, etc.... I only know of Walker 47 and I believe they are in Anaheim?

[scr83jp]

I'm loading 45-70 for a Marlin Guide gun. I have FMJ soft tip 350 grain bullets, and am wondering two things. Is .458 the correct diameter for copper bullets? I know it is for lead bullets, but I just want to make sure I'm doing this correctly. Also, I can't seem to find any info on powder charges for a 350 grain bullet. I have data for 300 and 400 grain, but no 350. I want to do cowboy loads for my dad, and also some standard charges to take camping with me. Thanks in advance

A site I use is www.gmdr.com and click on oregon trail cowboy loads ,the data is for LEAD Bullets. Another source of reloading info is Loadbooks The Complete Reloading Manual For The 45-70 Government you can buy them at midway,cabelas ,etc.

[buffybuster]

If it were me:

I would NOT attempt to make "cowboy" loads using jacketed bullets. You run the real risk of sticking a bullet in the barrel. Cowboy Action/blackpowder equivalent loads should only be made using LEAD bullets.