Reloading questions for 25-20

[bigbossman]

So, I've got brass on the way, and I'm looking at bullets and powders. My primary purpose for loading this caliber will be for shooting "for fun" and cowboy silhouettes....... so I'm thinking cast lead bullets.

The rifle in question is a Winchester Model 1892.

1st question: It appears that the velocities on even the "full house" loads with the 85/86gr bullets is in the 1500fps range, so am I safe in assuming these loads would be suitable for a cast lead bullet such as the Meister 25-20 85GR .258 RNFP?

2nd question: Powders. Hodgdon lists H110 and H4198. I don't have those. Anyone have experience with 25-20 cast bullets and other powders - W748, 700X, 2400, IMR4350, H4895, IMR4064, IMR4831......? I'm trying to use powder I have already, as finding new powder is sketchy around here.

3rd question: The bore has fairly strong rifling and the crown is good, but the bore is darkish and is probably pitted or otherwise corroded from a century of use. Will cast bullets foul such a barrel quickly and not be accurate?

4th question: Any pet loads, sage advice, experience, tips or tricks to share?

[Witch Hunter]

Boss, I use Hornady 60 grain flat points in mine. 11 grains or so of 2400 for 2100 FPS. I think shooting a lead bullet, you may see serious leading in a dark bore. Try it and see, I guess. Usually the crowns are bad on these guns from overzealous cleaning without care for the crown, but if your crown is good, then you might have a shooter! Good luck finding brass as you know it is made rarely even before this latest madness. Wish I could spare you some, but I have very little myself now. I assume you can run 32/20 brass through a sizing die to make 25/20, but I have never done it.

[Fjold]

Hodgdon only lists H4227 and HS-6 as suitable powders for the 25-20 and 85 grain bullets

Steve's pages gives this data for an 86 grain bullet:


2400 From 7.0 grains to 9.0 grains

AR-2205 From 7.6 grains to 8.6 grains

AR-2207 From 9.5 grains to 11.5 grains

H-110 From 7.0 grains to 8.0 grains

H-240 From 7.0 grains to 9.0 grains

H-322 From 11.3 grains to 12.0 grains

H-4198 From 10.5 grains to 11.5 grains

H-4227 From 8.0 grains to 8.6 grains

HS-6 From 4.5 grains to 5.5 grains

IMR-4198 From 10.5 grains to 13.0 grains

IMR-4227 From 8.0 grains to 10.7 grains

RL-7 From 10.5 grains to 11.5 grains

Unique From 4.5 grains to 5.5 grains

W-680 From 10.0 grains to 11.0 grains

[bigbossman]

Boss, I use Hornady 60 grain flat points in mine. 11 grains or so of 2400 for 2100 FPS. I think shooting a lead bullet, you may see serious leading in a dark bore. Try it and see, I guess. Usually the crowns are bad on these guns from overzealous cleaning without care for the crown, but if your crown is good, then you might have a shooter! Good luck finding brass as you know it is made rarely even before this latest madness. Wish I could spare you some, but I have very little myself now. I assume you can run 32/20 brass through a sizing die to make 25/20, but I have never done it.

Well.................. that's good news/bad news. The good news is that 2400 is a viable powder and I have it - the bad news is that those Hornady's are nowhere to be found, at least at all the places I've checked so far.

That's kind of why I was hoping for a cast bullet solution, because they are in stock and plentiful. I was afraid that the dark bore would lead up quickly, and you have heightened my fears. Gas checked lead, maybe? Hmmm.... haven't fund those yet............

[bigbossman]

Hodgdon only lists H4227 and HS-6 as suitable powders for the 25-20 and 85 grain bullets

Steve's pages gives this data for an 86 grain bullet:


2400 From 7.0 grains to 9.0 grains

AR-2205 From 7.6 grains to 8.6 grains

AR-2207 From 9.5 grains to 11.5 grains

H-110 From 7.0 grains to 8.0 grains

H-240 From 7.0 grains to 9.0 grains

H-322 From 11.3 grains to 12.0 grains

H-4198 From 10.5 grains to 11.5 grains

H-4227 From 8.0 grains to 8.6 grains

HS-6 From 4.5 grains to 5.5 grains

IMR-4198 From 10.5 grains to 13.0 grains

IMR-4227 From 8.0 grains to 10.7 grains

RL-7 From 10.5 grains to 11.5 grains

Unique From 4.5 grains to 5.5 grains

W-680 From 10.0 grains to 11.0 grains

Frank,

Thanks for that. Looks like 2400 will be suitable and also what I have on-hand. The next question I need to answer is whether shooting lead bullets out of a dark bore is asking for trouble. I can't find jacketed anywhere, but lead cast is available.

I may not have a choice.

[Fjold]

Frank,

Thanks for that. Looks like 2400 will be suitable and also what I have on-hand. The next question I need to answer is whether shooting lead bullets out of a dark bore is asking for trouble. I can't find jacketed anywhere, but lead cast is available.

I may not have a choice.

It's been done for hundreds of years. All those rifles built in the 1700s and 1800s had dark bores after a couple of years due to lack of cleaning and oiling.

You may have to scrub it with a brass brush a lot but everyone else does also.

[bigbossman]

It's been done for hundreds of years. All those rifles built in the 1700s and 1800s had dark bores after a couple of years due to lack of cleaning and oiling.

You may have to scrub it with a brass brush a lot but everyone else does also.

Ohhh..... a ray of sunshine - thanks! I'll order up some and see what's what.

[Witch Hunter]

Boss, don't worry about lead it comes out with Chore Boy and a brush. Give us a range report on whatever you load.

[bigbossman]

A bit of an update........

I finally got to reload some 25-20, and take the little 92 out for its first test. Not Good.

I tested 2 loads @ 50 yards, using the Meister 86gr lead FP. 4gr of 700x, and 6gr of 2400. Both loads same results - bullets were going everywhere.... high, low, left, right. Worse than a shotgun. Some on the paper, some off.

Close up inspection of the holes reveal that the bullet is key-holing, so it looks like cast bullets are out.

I have some 75gr Speer jacketed FP's on the way, so maybe they'll shoot OK. If not, I'm screwed.

[CSACANNONEER]

25 grains of FFFg is what it was designed for. Do you have any BP?

OK, when I first loaded for my 1892, I used jacketed SPs and had to join ammoguide to find a load for a powder that I already had in stock.

If you insist on cast bullets, keep the speed down. If I find my Lyman's cast bullet manual, I'll get some load data to you.

[bigbossman]

If you insist on cast bullets, keep the speed down. If I find my Lyman's cast bullet manual, I'll get some load data to you.

Not so much my insistence, but rather market dictates.

Turns out, the jacked bullets aren't really much more expensive than cast, just harder to find. The cast are about $21/100, and the jacketed about $23/100.

I just couldn't find the jacketed bullets anywhere, so I bought the Meister's. Since then, Midway got some Speer bullets in stock, so I ordered them.

I'm really, really hoping that will do the trick. I wanna shoot this gun - if it won't shoot, I'll get rid of it..... no safe queens for me.

[CSACANNONEER]

OK, my cast bullet manual shows an 88 grain cast bullet with 3.2-4.0 grains of 700X. I'd start on the low end and probably stay there for CAS and plinking. Please note that both bullets referenced in this manual are for GAS CHECKED bullets. You would probably be OK using non GC bullets at the low end. 3.2gr show a MV of 1160fps. I wouldn't push a non GCed bullet much faster.

[bigbossman]

OK, my cast bullet manual shows an 88 grain cast bullet with 3.2-4.0 grains of 700X. I'd start on the low end and probably stay there for CAS and plinking. Please note that both bullets referenced in this manual are for GAS CHECKED bullets. You would probably be OK using non GC bullets at the low end. 3.2gr show a MV of 1160fps. I wouldn't push a non GCed bullet much faster.

That's exactly what the Meister load data says to use with their bullet, 3.6 - 4.0gr of 700X with velocities between 1160 and 1245. They do not mention gas checks in their data, and their data is for their 86gr bullet (which is what I used).

Didn't work for *****. Something else is at play here - either this rifle has a REALLY bad bore, or it otherwise just isn't suitable for lead bullets. I'm praying jacketed bullets will work out the kinks. When they show up, I'll load some and give it a try.

[CSACANNONEER]

Have you tried slugging the barrel? Sounds like you might be able to just use a cast bullet that you already have. Also, I've found bullet lube can play a factor in leading. So, if you start casting your own, you might want to experiment with different lubes.

If it ends up being a parts gun, I'd be interested if the price was right.

[Dutch Henry]

I shoot 60 grain bullets and use a charge of 10 to 13 grains of Accurate 1680. Very accurate at 100 yards in my iron sighted Marlin 1894.