Cast bullet question

[p38buff]

I have been casting bullets for my model 94 30-30. I am going to start reloading 30-06 for my Savage 111. The alloys I mix for the .309 dies produce water-quenched bullets with BHN's of between 22 and 29 depending on the pressure requirement. The problem is that the bullets weigh about 18 to 20 grains less than the die states. Should I follow recipes for the stated die weight or the actual bullet weight? I have been using the data for the closest bullet weight keeping well below max loads and OAL of 2.580 with good results in the lever gun, but I am worried about the much higher pressures developed in the 30-06 case. I realize that the pressure data is dependent upon case volume and how deep the bullet is seated affects case volume. Since my lighter bullets have the same length as the heavier bullet should I stick to the heavier data for the 30-06? BTW I see no signs of over pressure in the 30-30.

Any guidance would be appreciated.

[thenodnarb]

I would go with data that is close to the actual weight of the bullets. Case volume is a factor, yes, but if you are starting low and working up, you will be fine as long as you are looking for pressure signs.

Which bullet mold are you using?

[noylj]

Go with either data for that weight or heavier weight--always.
Always work up the load.
Always try and find two independent sources and start with the lower starting load.
I never loaded my .30-06 up close to max loads with lead bullets, but always found #2 alloy, good lube, and gas checks were all I needed.

[CSACANNONEER]

I'd use a GC bullet for 30-06.

[koehn,jim]

I always use the weight of the bullet not what the mold says. It sounds like your alloy has to much tin in it, most molds are designed for number 2 alloy. Use a gas check and good lube.

[p38buff]

Thanks for all the info! I use Lee C 309-150F, 170F and 180R dies for 30-30 and just ordered a Lee C 309-200R for 30-06. I always gas check and use Liquid Allox. The alloy is Rotometals Super Hard with whatever lead I can find in San Diego and add just enough tin to fill out the mold. I'm probably a little on the high side with the antimony at BHN 29 but I whack a test bullet with a hammer to make sure it compresses without shattering.

Thanks again!

[CGT80]

What powder are you using and what velocity are you trying to achieve?

Your boolits don't have to be that hard.

I shoot a 180 grain flat nose boolit with a plain base, in both my 30-30 and 30-06. I don't push them hard, so the alloy can be soft, as in 10-12. I run at 1300 fps or less and use herco or red dot pistol powder.

Gas checks allow you to use a softer alloy. The diameter is more important than the hardness. Full power loads with a slow powder will need a harder alloy than what I use, but your alloy seems very hard.

Check out the castboolits forum. You can buy lead over there for a buck a pound plus flat rate shipping from the classifieds. I pick up bullets from the range and melt them down. You can add some wheel weight lead or super hard to the range scrap that you smelt or buy from the forum and get the hardness you need.

[p38buff]

Since powder has been scarce for the last year or so, I pick up whatever is available. I have accumulated quite an assortment. I have IMR 3031, 4064, 4198, H414, Benchmark, Lever, W760, and since I also reload .45 acp and 12 Gauge, an assortment of Clay's, Unique, A#5, and W231. I don't have a chrono so I base the velocities off the data. I have worked up loads with every powder and boolit weight to find sweet spots for my W94. So far, depending on the boolit weight, I can get clover leaf to 1" groups with Benchmark, IMR 4064, and IMR 4198 at 100 yards. (I have to use a scope because these old eyes can barely see the target at that range.) Almost all of the loads have pressures close to 30,000 CUP and above with velocities around 2000 fps. According to Lee's latest volume, I need a boolit with a lot of strength to handle that. I always GC the boolits and either use Alox or pan lube and size to .309. Although I couldn't find it in the Lee manual, I guess the data on pressure vs strength is based upon plain base boolits.

After reading yours and other's posts and scouring castboolits I found a lot of great info. A link to castpics.net gives excellent data for cast boolit loads, and a post charts max velocity vs max rpm according to twist to minimize the effect of irregularities in the boolit.

I guess I'll save some bucks and start casting softer boolits!

Thanks again.

[CGT80]

Cast boolits don't have to be pushed as fast as jacketed to get accuracy. Cast will actually do worse when pushed too fast. As long as you are using data for cast boolits, you should be ok. Almost all cast data I have seen, for rifles, is listed for gas checked boolits. You can make your own aluminum gas checks or buy them from people on the castboolits forum. They are less expensive to buy than copper.

I haven't pushed any cast boolits as fast as you are, so I don't have first hand experience with what the best hardness is, but I have read quite a bit from others. The guys over at castboolits will lead you in the right direction. Some people do use an alloy that is a bit harder than they think they can get away with, just for the insurance that it will hold up. I have heard many people claim that each gun has it's own preferences as well.

Good luck with your casting, reloading, and shooting.