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Casting stuff - The Hardness Test

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  • meaty-btz
    Calguns Addict
    • Sep 2010
    • 8980

    Casting stuff - The Hardness Test

    Just thought I would show off my setup and stuff. Also the jig for PC that I built in the other thread in gunsmithing as it was kind of a welding fab question. Also let's talk about home cheap hardness testing. It is well known in the industry that you can test your hardness for "general" hardness using certain high quality pencil's of various hardness.

    There is no hard chart for BH to Pencil Lead Hardness but you can ball park it and compare brand to brand and more importantly track batch hardness consistency.

    The technique is very straight forward but demanding. You need to have the lead as a cylinder with no taper and then you need to sand a 90% flat meplat into it. Then hold the pencil at 45% to the meplat and try to gouge like you would with a knife into the the flat base of the bullet. If you get graphite dust your alloy is harder than that lead go up until you reach one that can shave off, not scratch, shave, a bit of lead.

    I use stadletter artist sets to give me a range that is useful and I recommend the brand to others because that makes it easier to compare results. My current alloy has been a consistent "stadletter-BH" with water dropping which works out roughly Lymann #2 for comparative hardness. Interestingly enough this pure range scrap + some silver solder so to end up with a nicely bracketed Lymann #2 equiv is not half bad at all.

    The most important use of this method is to make sure you have consistent hardness between batches, and that is a good thing.

    Now lets throw some pictures. Today the goal is to Powdercoat the current lil pile of bullets, 9mm and 8x57 Mauser.





    ...but their exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level, and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom.
  • #2
    Spaceghost
    Calguns Addict
    • May 2006
    • 5772

    Thanks for posting your jig! I am looking at getting into powder coating my cast 9mm as well after reading so much good stuff.

    Comment

    • #3
      bohoki
      I need a LIFE!!
      • Jan 2006
      • 20826

      neat i too would like some type of cheap harndess tester

      ive had a couple ideas like say use a torque wrench with a press or vice or c-clamp and measure the indent of a spike of a certain torque reading

      but then i realized i only cast for 9mm and 45 acp so its not critical

      Comment

      • #4
        bohoki
        I need a LIFE!!
        • Jan 2006
        • 20826

        neat i too would like some type of cheap harndess tester

        ive had a couple ideas like say use a torque wrench with a press or vice or c-clamp and measure the indent of a spike of a certain torque reading

        but then i realized i only cast for 9mm and 45 acp so its not critical

        Comment

        • #5
          meaty-btz
          Calguns Addict
          • Sep 2010
          • 8980

          Just buy the 20 buck Stadletter set at office depot or staples and use the "pencil lead" test. It is accurate enough.

          A very rough scale for you:


          8B Sheet lead
          7B
          6B Lead wire 5 BHN
          5B 40/1 lead / tin
          4B
          3B 1/20 tin/lead 10 BHN
          3B Clip-on WW
          2B Range scrap
          B 20/1 Lead / tin
          B Quenched range scrap
          B Air cooled WW
          B WW+2% tin
          HB Lyman #2 15 Bhn
          F Lyman #2
          F Commercial cast
          H 50/50 Lino /WW
          H Linotype 20 Bhn
          2H Quenched WW
          2H Monotype
          3H
          4H
          Last edited by meaty-btz; 10-14-2013, 6:05 PM.
          ...but their exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level, and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom.

          Comment

          • #6
            anyracoon
            Veteran Member
            • May 2006
            • 3705

            Cry once and buy a good lead tester. Than you will know for sure! If you want send me a sample and I'll check it out for you.

            Comment

            • #7
              meaty-btz
              Calguns Addict
              • Sep 2010
              • 8980

              Originally posted by anyracoon
              Cry once and buy a good lead tester. Than you will know for sure! If you want send me a sample and I'll check it out for you.
              If I was after a specific BNH then the only way is to get a tester but there is no reason for an expensive tester when an industry batch matching standard is applied correctly. Most of us here don't need numeric BNH but rather relative hardness and batch consistency.

              I am a data point nut but even I realize that numeric BNH is almost useless but relative and batch to batch consistency is far more useful.

              Remember even your tester is a synthetic number. Between quality products (not walmart products) of the same batch the test is accurate enough and consistent enough. It is also why one should keep a set of "test ingots" on hand to "calibrate" if you need a new set of pencils. You are just creating a new, less precise, synthetic number system of hardness.

              For those wishing to enhance the precision of this system Gardner offers a product.

              Last edited by meaty-btz; 10-14-2013, 8:31 PM.
              ...but their exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level, and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom.

              Comment

              • #8
                fguffey
                Senior Member
                • Mar 2010
                • 1408

                Hardness tester

                R. Lee in his book on modern reloading spelled it out as being area, weight and time. His lead bullet man used a ball peen hammer.

                I have simply dropped lead ingots to determine the soft lead ingots from the hard lead ingots..

                F. Guffey

                Comment

                • #9
                  bruceflinch
                  I need a LIFE!!
                  • Jan 2006
                  • 40179

                  Show Off!
                  Actually I only started collecting Milsurps 3 years ago. I think I might own about 24...They're cheaper than guns that will most likely never get the opportunity to kill somebody...

                  I belong to the group that uses firearms, and knows which bathroom to use.

                  Tis better to have Trolled & lost, Than to never have Trolled, at all.

                  Secret Club Member?.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    klewan
                    Veteran Member
                    • Jun 2011
                    • 3031

                    Lee makes a real hardness tester; about $50. Look at Castboolits for ideas on how to make a stand for it. Also at Castboolits is a new liquid coating for cast bullets. Small amount in a container, swirl around some bullets, into the oven to bake. No need for racks or other complications.

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      meaty-btz
                      Calguns Addict
                      • Sep 2010
                      • 8980

                      Originally posted by klewan
                      Lee makes a real hardness tester; about $50. Look at Castboolits for ideas on how to make a stand for it. Also at Castboolits is a new liquid coating for cast bullets. Small amount in a container, swirl around some bullets, into the oven to bake. No need for racks or other complications.
                      It isn't new. I know about it. The results are pretty good but there is a cost factor. I'll stick with pc.
                      ...but their exists also in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level, and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom.

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Caneman
                        Member
                        • Feb 2013
                        • 114

                        pencils

                        Comment

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