Lee Carbide Crimp Die "optional" ????

[Pauliedad]

Ok, so yeah, obviously I still have more to learn. A few months back a pick up a set of Lee carbide dies in 9mm cuz Dillon is way back ordered and I think I can give these a go.
Finally get around this morning to make my first 9s (been busy with .45/.40/.38 for a while now so i figure I'll be up and running with in a short time since I'm all comfy with my 650 and the caliber cov. kit showed up yesterday and KA POW!

NO crimp die! so I go into the box thinking gun show dude burned me for the newb I am and low and behold in the packaging it shows the contents as "size/deprime" "expander/powder die" "bullet seating die" and "OPTIONAL crimp die" WTH?

I've understood that with a semi auto, you always crimp so you dont have to deal with setback. Why would a set be sold in 9mm without a crimp die?

I guess I could imagine with a FMJ or plated you might get enough tension without an added squeeze but I'm using Precision's coated lead and those bad boys can get scraped with harsh language let alone a tight fit during bullet seating.

Let me be clear, WTH??

Rant teminated.


I ordered my dillon crimping die and on a separate not do like the mini adjust the Lee seating die has. May have to look into more of those for other calibers.

Thanks for any schooling that may be coming my way, Paul

[ptmn]

Paul,
It's no worries, in the Lee three die set, the seating die is also a crimp die. The optional crimp die that is mentioned in the literature is the carbide Lee factory crimp die. This die has a carbide ring that sizes your Loaded round to ensure it fits a SAAMI chamber while also crimping. There is some controversy about the optional die, with many stating it is useless, unsafe, or degrades accuracy. I use it because I not only get reliable rounds, but they are also accurate. I learned about it from a true professional reloader that used the factory crimp die on all three of his Camdex machines. He loaded over a million rounds a year.

But getting back to your original question, in the Lee die set you have, the seating die is also the crimping die. The seating die does not have a carbide sizer, it will only seat and crimp the case mouth.

[at_liberty]

For loading lead bullets I do not use the Lee FCD. They have been replaced with Hornady on semi-auto cartridges and with Redding Profile Crimp Dies on revolver cartridges. Otherwise the larger bullet diameter created enough resistance at the FCD post sizing ring to imprint the bullet shape on the case and to sometimes reduce the diameter of the bullet (swage), increasing the likelihood of barrel leading and all that goes with it.

On 9mm jacketed I found the FCD essential, when I was not successful in getting all the rounds to chamber while using only a three die set. I figure it is not a rite of manhood to get the seater die so perfect that every round chambers. The FCD just makes the issue go away. I do suggest ones best effort to setup a seater/crimp die optimally, but the FCD can do both crimp and post size...end of story.

On my .45 ACP, most of my ammo is lately shot in a revolver, but if I had some intended for the 1911s I would check each lead bullet round in a gauge. I don't use my barrel, because if it won't shoot standard ammo, I get rid of the gun (or would). Others feel differently but that's just me. I don't tailor ammo to a specific gun, although I do use lighter or heavier powder charges.

[Bastard]

it is part of the seating die.

recommend you don't use it, get a separate crimp die

[ZRen]

it is part of the seating die.

recommend you don't use it, get a separate crimp die

+1

I have that exact same 9mm 3 die set and I bought the separate 9mm lee factory Crimp Die.

[rsrocket1]

The Standard Lee die set has 3 dies:
Decap/Resize
Powder through expander
Seat/Crimp

The Deluxe set adds the FCD which is not only not really neeed, many say you should never use it. It only covers up mistakes in your loading methods.
The carbide ring post sizes the case to bring it to factory specs on the cartridge and ensures smooth feeding in any autoloader.

It should only be used with jacketed bullets which should already be .355". If you minimally flare the case just enough to allow the bullet to sit straight as it goes into the seating die, there is no need to post size the cartridge. If you follow the instructions on using the seater/crimp die, there is no need to use a separate crimp die.

If you load lead bullets, you really shouldn't use the FCD. The sizing ring will squeeze the lead bullet to where it may not seal the gases as it goes down the barrel and you may end up with lots of lead in the barrel and keyholing of your shots in short order.

If you insist on crimping in a separate step, get the separate crimp die without the sizing ring.

[Chief-7700]

You can use Lee dies on a XL-650, however they are a pain in the butt. Just Get the Dillon dies for the following reasons:

Easy to set up.
Easy to clean out the seating and crimp die w/o changing you settings.
Sizing die mouth is radiused.
Easy to replace decapping pin.
No BS Warranty.
Chief

[rsrocket1]

Just Get the Dillon dies for the following reasons:

Chief

You can't get what ain't there.

A few months back a pick up a set of Lee carbide dies in 9mm cuz Dillon is way back ordered and I think I can give these a go.

Learn how to use the Lee dies and you'll at least have some rounds to shoot. When the Dillon dies come out of vaporware status, you can then decide whether it's worth the convenience.

Just to let you know that I'm not being a smart@$$, you can get Dillon dies in stock right now (10/6/2013 noon)

[skibuff]

I've loaded 9 since the 80's lead,plated and FMJ with RCBS 3 die carbide and have always seated and crimped in the same step. I've never owned a separate crimp die for any calibers.

Use minimal flaring and minimal crimp, just enough to keep the bullet from bumping deeper in the case. When setting up crimp, I test by pushing the bullet into the side of the bench to make sure the bullet doesn't push deeper into the case.

[Chief-7700]

You can't get what ain't there.




Learn how to use the Lee dies and you'll at least have some rounds to shoot. When the Dillon dies come out of vaporware status, you can then decide whether it's worth the convenience.

Just to let you know that I'm not being a smart@$$, you can get Dillon dies in stock right now (10/6/2013 noon)

I know......

[Pauliedad]

Good stuff. As stated above I already ordered Dillons crimp die so I think I'll check that out before I just bail in the lee dies.
Again, thanks for the info.
Paul

[bruce381]

side note:

I had lee 45acp dies on my 650 about 25 years ago when I first bought it and
had problems with:

setuping up the dies they were shorter than Dillion and I had problems with getting a wrench on them.

Also they did not size the case all they way down and to the base enough I had a "bulge" which then they did not chamber 100%

Changing to dillion dies my laods all chamber 100% with a ROLL crimp in the last station.

Also the dillion has a large MOUTH which does not catch at the edge of the cas mouith when going fast, with the lee the case mouth sometime would catch and squish the case which you then have to clear.

order dillion you will be more happy

[scotchblade]

I have the FCD for .357 and .44, but chose not to use one with 9MM. I use a L.E. Wilson gage to check as I go. Flare minimally and crimp just enough to remove flare. So far, so good.

[dung8604]

I recently started loading 9, and have the carbide four die set. I'm completely skipping the crimp operation. As another user started, I barely flare the case, and after I seat, I get nice, intimate contact between the bullet and case mouth. I don't know if in getting bullet set back, but with as much tension as I'm feeling, I don't think that it will be a problem.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4

[at_liberty]

side note:

I had lee 45acp dies on my 650 about 25 years ago when I first bought it and
had problems with:

setuping up the dies they were shorter than Dillion and I had problems with getting a wrench on them.

Also they did not size the case all they way down and to the base enough I had a "bulge" which then they did not chamber 100%

Changing to dillion dies my laods all chamber 100% with a ROLL crimp in the last station.

Also the dillion has a large MOUTH which does not catch at the edge of the cas mouith when going fast, with the lee the case mouth sometime would catch and squish the case which you then have to clear.

order dillion you will be more happy

By that description, I doubt you had an actual "factory crimp die". They do have a regular crimp die.