giraurd trimmer problem

[westcoastr]

edit - title should read RCBS pro2000 problem...see my post #5 below

anyone getting uneven trimming even if the case is rotated and tilted in every direction? mine is cutting like the case is going in at 5-10 deg angle and not rotated.

[CSACANNONEER]

Sounds like something is way out of alignment. Ocassionally, I've noticed a .001" variance while trimming 50BMG brass but, that's about it. I haven't bothered to trim any little calibers with it yet.

[anyracoon]

Westcoastr

Is this doing it from the first time you used it or did it start happening after a while? Check to see if the nut on the back side next to the drive pulley has become loose. Remove the clear cover and see if you can make the cutter wiggle. Give Doug a call if all else fails.

[Pthfndr]

When you trim on the Giraud, as you rotate the shell, keep slight pressure to one side - and one side only. Don't try to "swirl" the shell in the shell holder.

If you still think you have a problem, give Doug a call. He will talk you through it, and if there is a problem he WILL take care of you. He backs his stuff 100%.

ETA: I have one of the earliest trimmers from Doug. I've done literally tens of thousands of cases and never had a problem. Even has the original drive belt on it.

[westcoastr]

i bought it almost a year ago but have been swamped with work and new baby and have had no time to play around with it. so i broke it out tonight and starting getting this problem. after adjusting the giraurd in a million times i started to think what else could cause this. well I know the physics wouldn't let it happen if spun the case, even if the cutter, spindle, case holder or inner spring-loaded holder were out of alignment. it MUST be that the shoulder has a high spot on it.

well i can't measure this but i can run some tests to see if it is 1) naturally occuring in the brass 2) the sizer die putting in on, or 3) the shell plate tilting is the cuplrit. ran a couple of groups of brass thru the press, each set I rotated the die 90 deg but always kept the brass with the "w" on the "win" part of the head stamp pointing in same direction. and sure enough, no matter how i set the die, the high spot (or lack of trimming) always happen in same spot, so its not an imperfection in the die. so #1 is ruled out. then rotated brass 180 deg and tried again, and found out that it is the shell plate tilting to the outside that is causing the uneveness as whatever side of the brass is on the outside, that part of the shoulder is not getting pushed back as far and causing the trimmer to miss.

i'll try to confirm with Doug this week, *most* of the RCBS support are not too helpful on anything that is not basic.

don't know if this is going to cause me problems, especially with the crimp. so far no probs loading into the rifle, but of course most 30-30's have a huge headspace and it uses the rim anyways.

[rksimple]

In addition to the shellplate, the threads of the press (or die for that matter) may not be square to the ram. This will induce the same problem.

[westcoastr]

In addition to the shellplate, the threads of the press (or die for that matter) may not be square to the ram. This will induce the same problem.

i know the die is not to blame as i rotated it 90 and 180 degrees and the problem was always on the case where it was on the outside of the press. but good point, as the die plate has some play in it and as you mentioned the press body itself could be out of true.

well RCBS said that moving a shoulder back at an angle is "physically impossible" as by the time it gets all the way into the die it should be straight...but asked me to send in some cases and they will measure.

in the mean time i am going remove the decapping pin and move the sizer die to the far side and see what happens, also will try to shim the shell and die plates

i never noticed this issue in the past as my old trimmer indexed off the rim and the headspace in my 30-30 and FAL are fairly generous.

[ar15barrels]

When you full-length size rifle cases on a progressive press, shellplate platform flex IS an issue.
What I do is put a couple dillon powder dies across the shellplate to support the shellplate during sizing.
This keeps the platform from laying over at an angle into un-supported space and giving you that crooked casehead.
I keep my trimming toolhead all setup like this.

[ar15barrels]

Here's a picture showing what I am talking about.
The dillon trimmer also sizes so it creates the same problem you are seeing, especially if you don't keep the cases lubed!

[westcoastr]

randall, thanks for the idea - i'll try it. i will have to set a die on the far side and screw it down just right where it holds the shell plate down but doesn't keep the active sizer die from moving its full length.

i have tried everything else, shimmed both die and shell plates, i even shimmed the die locking ring to help lean the die in somewhat. nothing works. i also tried to size a case, rotate it 90 deg and size again in an effort to equalized the shoulder...but it actually just moved the problem to the opposite side of the shoulder (i.e. what ever one is to the outside of the press).

then I’m done playing around and going to load up a few and see what happens. I might get a separate single stage press to size the cases since I load in two steps anyways as I trim and clean before the rest of the loading process.

[ar15barrels]

randall, thanks for the idea - i'll try it. i will have to set a die on the far side and screw it down just right where it holds the shell plate down but doesn't keep the active sizer die from moving its full length.

i have tried everything else, shimmed both die and shell plates, i even shimmed the die locking ring to help lean the die in somewhat. nothing works. i also tried to size a case, rotate it 90 deg and size again in an effort to equalized the shoulder...but it actually just moved the problem to the opposite side of the shoulder (i.e. what ever one is to the outside of the press).

then I’m done playing around and going to load up a few and see what happens. I might get a separate single stage press to size the cases since I load in two steps anyways as I trim and clean before the rest of the loading process.

If supporting the other side of the platform does not help, get a 550 or a 650.
The smaller the shellplate diameter, the stronger the platform for sizing.
Score one for the 550 in that respect.

I'm of the opinion that most progresive presses were designed only for sizing pistol brass.
Shouldered rifle brass takes a lot more force to size.

[westcoastr]

I'm of the opinion that most progresive presses were designed only for sizing pistol brass.
Shouldered rifle brass takes a lot more force to size.

i think you are right....and it sounds like ALL of them flex. kinda disappointed RCBS didn't recognize this and offer some help versus their "it's impossible for that to happen" response..but will wait to pass judgement until they inspect the cases i sent them.

found out that if i size, trim, rotate 180 deg and size again and trim again they come out fine - so that's what i'll do for now until RCBS gets back to me or I just buy a single stage press, they are $40-50 right now. if dillons have the same issue that not much use switching as will lose $$ in the process and have to come up to speed on it and its own quirks

[-hanko]

I'm of the opinion that most progresive presses were designed only for sizing pistol brass. Shouldered rifle brass takes a lot more force to size.

.
Correct-a-mundo, check the early C&H, Hollywood, P-W and Star tools. All were designed for pistol ammo.

-hanko