Reloading for Large Caliber Revolvers?

[Justintoxicated]

I was thinking about getting a Super Red Hawk or an X Frame S&W. Really though I don't intend to shoot 460 mag or 454 all the time. I was interested though because I read you can load up 45 Colt in these made to be even stouter than 44 magnum.

Probably most of the time I would want to shoot 45 colt, but I found it interesting that you can overload the ammo for this particular gun if you felt so inclined. However I was reading somewhere else that firing lighter weight bullets at high velocity will tend to wear the forcing cone per-maturely? Would the SRH or 460 be a bad gun to purchase if one was to mostly fire 45 colt out of it?

Also since I already have a 45, can I get projectiles that will work with both?

[ojisan]

Forcing cone damage with lighter bullets was primarily a S&W K frame problem with lots of 125G .357 Mag ammo.
The SRH and X frame will not have this problem.

Bullets: for target shooting, soft lead bullets will have to be kept at around 1200FPS max.
Jacketed bullets no limits.
Hollowpoint jacketed bullets made for .45LC may over expand or come apart at higher velocities if you are going to be hunting.
Tougher hollowpoints for higher velocities are available.

[shooting4life]

They are talking about shooting light for caliber bullets at super fast speeds as being a bad idea. Shoot 45 colt loads in a 460 and your fine. Don't take a 180gr bullet and try to see how fast you can get it going.
This was discovered when the 357 maximum came out, it was a great cartridge with 158gr plus bullets, especially 180gr bullets. But people started loading 125gr bullets to try and see how fast they could get them going, this cause throat erosion and frame cutting. So much so Dan Wesson started supplying their 357 maximum revolvers with 2 barrels because the first barrel was getting shot out.

[Dark Mod]

460 and 454 ruger will work with you regular .45 caliber projectiles. Both are fine guns. Im partial to the Smith personally, but if you dislike the X Frame a ruger would be a nice compromise.

I always thought a handgun launching .45 caliber hunks of lead at rifle velocities was pretty damn awesome.

Im not sure how fast you intend to push lighter bullets, but typical use shouldnt place any UNDUE wear on the forcing cone. They are built to handle it.

Hornady XTP Mag's were the only bullets i could find readily available to load with, and if i remember correctly they are only rated for like 2300 fps or so.

I think any bullet you push fast enough to place undue wear on your forcing cone would also have you picking peices of it out of your teeth afterward. I wouldnt worry too much about it.

Any extra speed is really unnecissary, trajectory stays flat out to like 200 yards or something. I doubt anyone is hitting stuff beyond that with a handgun.

[Justintoxicated]

460 and 454 ruger will work with you regular .45 caliber projectiles. Both are fine guns. Im partial to the Smith personally, but if you dislike the X Frame a ruger would be a nice compromise.

I always thought a handgun launching .45 caliber hunks of lead at rifle velocities was pretty damn awesome.

Im not sure how fast you intend to push lighter bullets, but typical use shouldnt place any UNDUE wear on the forcing cone. They are built to handle it.

Hornady XTP Mag's were the only bullets i could find readily available to load with, and if i remember correctly they are only rated for like 2300 fps or so.

I think any bullet you push fast enough to place undue wear on your forcing cone would also have you picking peices of it out of your teeth afterward. I wouldnt worry too much about it.

Any extra speed is really unnecissary, trajectory stays flat out to like 200 yards or something. I doubt anyone is hitting stuff beyond that with a handgun.

Just to be clear I meant extra velocity for a 45 colt load, not 460 / 454 casull.

I hear older smiths are better (pre-lock) due to cheaper parts being used these days MiM parts differt style hammer etc (and I guess some people don't care for the lock but I don't care about that much). Well x-frames are not available pre-lock so how does that figure in? The x-frame is nice although absurdly large but it seems to me that most people that have problems develop are on S&W platforms, granted maybe not the x-frame I don't know. Problems like cylinder timing and wobble issues where this seems less common on the ruger. Plus with the 454 you get 6 shots instead of 5 so that's a plus too. I'm looking to buy used so the S&W seems less desirable used due to them developing more problems? The 460 is a nice gun no doubt and I like the break on the end, but I want to have less things to worry about. I shot the S&W500 and my hand started to sting after the 5th shot of so shooting 400gr 26000 fps bullets. I don't think I would enjoy shooting 460 much either.

I was looking for a 44 magnum but then realized 45 colt can be loaded to surpass 44 magnum as long as it is in an x-frame or super red hawk. Plus like I said I already load 45 so I might be able to share some projectiles. Then again don't revolver bullets usually have a cannelure?

[Dark Mod]

Just to be clear I meant extra velocity for a 45 colt load, not 460 / 454 casull.

I hear older smiths are better (pre-lock) due to cheaper parts being used these days MiM parts differt style hammer etc (and I guess some people don't care for the lock but I don't care about that much). Well x-frames are not available pre-lock so how does that figure in? The x-frame is nice although absurdly large but it seems to me that most people that have problems develop are on S&W platforms, granted maybe not the x-frame I don't know. Problems like cylinder timing and wobble issues where this seems less common on the ruger. Plus with the 454 you get 6 shots instead of 5 so that's a plus too. I'm looking to buy used so the S&W seems less desirable used due to them developing more problems? The 460 is a nice gun no doubt and I like the break on the end, but I want to have less things to worry about. I shot the S&W500 and my hand started to sting after the 5th shot of so shooting 400gr 26000 fps bullets. I don't think I would enjoy shooting 460 much either.

I was looking for a 44 magnum but then realized 45 colt can be loaded to surpass 44 magnum as long as it is in an x-frame or super red hawk. Plus like I said I already load 45 so I might be able to share some projectiles. Then again don't revolver bullets usually have a cannelure?

Lots of people prefer older smiths, but it doesnt mean the new ones cant handle the cartridges they were designed for. The 44 mag was just about the top of the food chain until fairly recently.

I couldnt imagine pushing a 45 colt fast enough to cause problems a 454 wouldnt. You should be fine.

I will tell you in my experience that Rugers are built far more stoutly than their smith and wesson counterparts. The only exception is the X frame, its freaking gigantic compared to other large frame revolvers, Ive owned a 460, and currently own a 500, and havent had any problems with the lock or the MIM parts. Rest assured that it is built to handle the caliber its designed for.

You may have less problems with a Ruger, but i doubt you will have problems with either one honestly. The Super Redhawk is a tank of a gun though, I would imagine you could get lower 460 velocities out of a 454 if you have the stomach for it.

I crimp everything that goes in a revolver, so a cannelure is important to me. Whiterabbit had a thread ago showing off some of the huge rounds he makes. He doesnt feel the need to crimp, i guess if the bullet is big enough then case tension will keep it in place.

[CGT80]

I have had the 460 x-frame for about a year and a half. It has never seen factory ammo. My hot loads are 240 hornady xtp mag at 19xx fps over a minimum charge of w296/h-110 (45.0 grains) and a 300 hornady xtp mag at 15xx fps with a minimum charge of 296/110. Velocities are usually lower than the book lists. Full power loads are no problem for the hands. The noise and concussion are insane though.

200-275 grain bullets in the 45 colt brass or 460 starline brass are both very accurate, though I am no expert marksman.

I run a 230 LRN 45 acp bullet over 6.0 grains of red dot in a 45 colt case for a light load. It feels like a 22 in the 460 and is cheap and fast to load.

For low power 460 loads I use trail boss powder (270 grain cast boolit at 1,000 fps), mid power loads are 45 colt bullets at 1400fps with AA5744, and hot loads are 296/110.

I have had no problems with my gun with a few thousand rounds through it. I shoot mostly mild loads with mid and hot loads thrown in for fun.

My dad's Smith model 10 38spl feels like a squirt gun compared to the x frame.

The 500 x frame did really sting my hand, but I don't know what the weight or power level of those hand loads were that I shot.

45 acp bullets work fine for light 45 colt or 460 loads, but not hot stuff.

[Divernhunter]

My hand would hurt and the gun blow up if shooting 300-400gr bullets at "26,000FPS" also.

If you shoot the 454/460 loads with lighter jackets bullets you will get throat wear as the bases will expand before going into the cone. Freedom Arms (who started the 454) had a article about it. That is why Hornady makes 2 bullets the same weight but one is listed as"-mag" and the other not. I have used the 240gr HP-mag bullet in my 454 at 454 levels and sometimes the 240gr HP at 45Colt+ levels. You can use the mag bullet at the lower levels also. I just used the regular bullet as I got some cheap.

[Justintoxicated]

My hand would hurt and the gun blow up if shooting 300-400gr bullets at "26,000FPS" also.

If you shoot the 454/460 loads with lighter jackets bullets you will get throat wear as the bases will expand before going into the cone. Freedom Arms (who started the 454) had a article about it. That is why Hornady makes 2 bullets the same weight but one is listed as"-mag" and the other not. I have used the 240gr HP-mag bullet in my 454 at 454 levels and sometimes the 240gr HP at 45Colt+ levels. You can use the mag bullet at the lower levels also. I just used the regular bullet as I got some cheap.

I must have an extra 0 in there lol.

And the circle continues.

I was originally going to get a 44 magnum, then someone suggested getting a 454 or 460 because you can load up 45CL to surpass 44 magnum if desired and it is safe to shoot, while also being able to shoot stouter loads if need be, plus you get a break and progressive rifling.

However, after more research it sounds like shooting 45CL instead of 460 will either reduce accuracy, or increase throat wear of the gun, so it would be best to not shoot these loads then?

So then it gets complicated and I have no idea what I want to purchase, and I start looking back to 44 magnum again, which everyone seems to think is an inferior gun because their big boys can shoot 45CL etc (but at reduced accuracy? and increased wear only?) I was planning to mostly shoot 45CL from it but It does not sound like that is a very good idea anymore.

[JagerDog]

In a Ruger, the 45LC can rival 44 mag. Plenty of folks doing so in Blackhawks, etc. But i see no reason to load 45LC brass overly hot when you're chambered for 454 or 460. Just clean your chambers and use the appropriate magnum caliber brass whn you want to go full stiffy.

I could only hope to shoot enough to wear one out.

[GeoffLinder]

The basic fact on throat cutting is pretty much the same for most anything. Lighter bullets use more powder, more powder = more flame front = more throat cutting (heat induced metal erosion)

[CGT80]

i see no reason to load 45LC brass overly hot when you're chambered for 454 or 460. Just clean your chambers and use the appropriate magnum caliber brass whn you want to go full stiffy.

I could only hope to shoot enough to wear one out.

I agree. My starline 460 brass is holding up pretty well, especially in the light and medium loads. I do have to trim the brass. Yes it is straight wall but it grows. CTS makes or can make a trimmer for straight wall brass. I have a prototype and it works great. It beats the heck out of using my electric lyman trimmer.

460 brass, starline brand, is available on midway for $60 per 100. My brother bought me another hundred for Christmas this year and I bought 100 about a year before that, when the gun was new. I doubt that I have lost more than 25 cases and some were due to sizing new brass too much and others have developed cracks at the edges. Annealing might help, but I haven't tried it. I have a few hundred 45lc cases that keep me going with cheap and easy to make plinking ammo.

It all depends on what you want to do with the gun. I only do various types of target shooting and the 460 was my first revolver and so far only revolver. I wanted something macho, something with exceptional finish and trigger, and something I could make cheap loads for, as well as accuracy. Well it does everything very well. If only I was even close to as good as it's potential is.

[Whiterabbit]

Forcing cone damage with lighter bullets was primarily a S&W K frame problem with lots of 125G .357 Mag ammo.
The SRH and X frame will not have this problem.

Bullets: for target shooting, soft lead bullets will have to be kept at around 1200FPS max.
Jacketed bullets no limits.
Hollowpoint jacketed bullets made for .45LC may over expand or come apart at higher velocities if you are going to be hunting.
Tougher hollowpoints for higher velocities are available.

You'll have to tell that to my 500 grain soft lead bullets I shoot to 1350 fps in my 460. I'm nowhere near max.

OP, first off, buy one of these guns. They are great. I suggest the X-frame if you want to shoot light bullets at warp speed, and the Ruger if you want to shoot the heavies slowly. The difference? More recoil and less penetration with the light stuff. Will shoot flatter though, if you are about that sort of thing. slow heavies have been shown to penetrate more. You will be chuckin' pumpkins though. I'm fairly confident you can get a 400-425 grain bullet working in the ruger. The X-frame will, in my experience, need to push a 425 really fast to get it to stabilize. Can't prove it yet, but my SWAG is around 1400-1500 fps. Good thing it comes with a brake, hmm?

you talk of hotrodding 45 colts, you are better off downloading 454's or 460's. It's better for the brass, it's better for the gun. 454 and 460 brass is not cheap. But downloaded to a HOT 45 colt, it will last forever. I suggest you save the 45 colt brass for traillboss cowboy loads. With 45ACP bullets, and YES you can share them.

You can even load those 45 acp bullets to 460 velocities. Ask me how I know. wont hurt anything. The results are....interesting. Lots of flash and lead, then lots of cleaning later. . Not that I recommend making a standard practice of that.

The biggest lesson shooting 460 taught me is throw all the rest of the rules of loading and shooting out. Can't use any of the rules of thumb and guarantee similar results. That lesson took me about 1000 rounds of missing paper to figure out. Unless you don't shoot past 25 yards. Then you can do whatever you want and it'll work in these guns.