Shoulder bumping only with Hornady die

[rd2play]

Does anyone have any experience with Hornady match grade neck size dies? I bought one for my .308, mainly because it's supposed to bump the shoulder without FL sizing (besides neck sizing and depriming). I also got two bushings for it, 336 and 334.

I used it on fire formed cases and it just doesn't bump the shoulder. I checked with the Hornady headspace gauge and nothing moved. I tried with the depriming rod and bushing removed, and still nothing.

I called Hornady eventually and I got a very hesitant technical support guy on the phone. At first he didn't know what to say, then he said it's not supposed to bump the shoulder, only neck size, and eventually he said that it didn't bump the shoulder because the case is probably still below SAAMI specs.

I don't what to think about that... If the guy had sounded more knowledgeable I wouldn't doubt it, but now I'm not sure.

The case length is about 2.012, and the shoulder doesn't seem to be above SAAMI specs. Does that mean that the Hornady die really bumps only if the case expands above SAAMI

If no one knows for sure I might call them and hope to get a different rep on the phone.

[LynnJr]

If your gun is a bolt gun and since your neck sizing only it should be if the brass drops right in your shoulder doesn't need bumping back yet.

If the rounds are tight on chambering your shoulder needs to be set back and if they are tight on extraction the base of the case needs sizing.

None of my neck dies touch the shoulder at all but they are custom dies or Redding dies.The Hornady dies should work the same way.

The confusion comes in because most neck dies say in there advertising that they correct or fix headspacing issues.What is meant by this is they only squeeze the neck down allowing the shoulder to move forward to fill out the chamber which might take several firings.When your gun is chambered there is a allowable tolerance on the chamber length.The ammunition manufactures need to be below the minimum spec on the tightest factory chamber in order for the rounds to fit and function correctly.This means you end up with shoulder needing a couple fireforming loads to properly fit your chamber.

If you have some older brass from the same gun measure the shoulders and see if the longest round will chamber easily.You can then compare it against your newer brass to see if the shoulders are close to needing a bump or if they still have room to lengthen.

The only bushing neck dies I own that move the shoulder are made by Neil Jones.

[rd2play]

I agree, I wasn't going to bump the shoulder yet because they chamber perfectly (it is a bolt gun). As you said, they need a few more fireformings. It's a new gun, so I only have once fired brass.

The reason I asked the question is that I just got the die and I was ready to experiment on a few cases just to see how it works. I was surprised to see it didn't bump the shoulder. I guess the Hornady rep might have correct; it won't bump the shoulder until it expands more. I guess I'll know for sure after I fire the brass a few more times.

What's interesting is that I have a LE Wilson bushing, which per Hornady works with their die, and I just tried and it did bump the shoulder. Which is confusing... I thought the role of the bushing in the Hornady die is to only neck size, not bump the shoulder. The die itself bumps the shoulder, whether or not a bushing is used. Apparently, the Wilson bushing works differently.

I know what to do for my reloads, I'm just trying to understand the inner workings of the die. I might have to ask Wilson about their bushing.

[mark501w]

FL size & don't worry about it. Just go shooting! Better yet SB size.

[NoNOS67]

FL size & don't worry about it. Just go shooting! Better yet SB size.

For a bolt gun?? For what??

[mark501w]

Doesn't matter.

[NoNOS67]

Well, that was helpful...

[hylander]

FL size & don't worry about it. Just go shooting! Better yet SB size.

Never SB size unless your particular rifle requires it.
However I have yet to see a bolt gun require it, as a matter of fact I have never seen any rifle need it.
Basically all SB sizing does is over work the brass causing premature failure and less accuracy.

[mark501w]

My bolt gun loves it!

[LynnJr]

The Wilson neck bushing die doesn't bump the shoulder.The die is probably adjusted to size too much of the neck and is pushing the shoulder by accident and not intent.

If you full length size your brass in a bolt gun and set the shoulder back 0.001 and the brass clicks on opening you need the small base die.

[ExtremeX]

The Wilson neck bushing die doesn't bump the shoulder.The die is probably adjusted to size too much of the neck and is pushing the shoulder by accident and not intent.

If you full length size your brass in a bolt gun and set the shoulder back 0.001 and the brass clicks on opening you need the small base die.

RCBS Match Bushing dies are setup the same way...

I only have experience with the RCBS match bushing dies... not sure about the Hornady dies...

The FL bushing die without the bushing installed can be used as a bump die.

The Neck bushing die does not bump the shoulders at all... only works with the bushing.

[J-cat]

Did you set the die to cam over? Maybe the .002" of frame flex is preventing your shoulder from bring bumped by a measurable amount.

[rd2play]

Did you set the die to cam over?

I did. I tried all possible "depths".

The Wilson neck bushing die doesn't bump the shoulder.

That's right. The Wilson can be used in a Hornady die to neck size only, but it's not a simple drop-in replacement. The die needs to be backed off a lot when using Wilson.

[mark501w]

Iwas only talking about FL sizing neck sizing is only to hold the bullet. I would watch the neck with some lube on it & set my die to size as much of neck as was necessary.

[J-cat]

You can remove material off the top of the shell holder.