Load data questions.

[Intimid8tor]

Go figure, another new reloader.

I'm working on reloading 9mm first and I am using CCI small pistol primers and Alliant Unique powder. Projectiles are Berry's plated 124gr flat point.

When I look in my Lyman Handbook it doesn't have load data for anything in 124 grain but does for 125 grain hollowpoint. I went to Alliant's website and they have a 124 grain load for speer GDHP projectiles.

Couple questions related to that.
If there is a discrepancy between the Lyman manual and the powder maker's recipes, do you favor one over the other?

If you have a HP recipe, can you use that recipe on a FMJ, plated or TMJ?

How do you adjust OAL if the projectile you are using is a different shape?

For instance, I will be using extreme plated bullets after I finish these Berry's. Those are round nose, 124 grain as opposed to flat nose. What are the steps for adjusting the OAL in this case?

Thanks for taking the time to answer any or all of the questions.

[Solus]

always go by the powder manufacturer load data from my experience itll keep you safer. the COAL is set by the seating die by moving the plunger down or up.

[Bill Steele]

Basically you can try and find load data for your exact bullet and powder combination, or you can use similar examples, use start loads and work up slowly.

As you suspect, different bullet profiles and construction have different lengths (hence different seating depths for a given OAL of a cartridge), so you also probably suspect that will affect pressures. You would be correct. See how well you are doing already?

Generally, if you are loading say a jacketed hollow point, you can use the load data for any jacketed bullet o the same weight and if you start lower in the suggested range and work up, watching for things like flat primers an crazy velocity numbers, you will never have a problem. The same goes for lead. For plated, you generally can use mid range jacketed data, again maybe use start loads at first, and you should be fine. In load data, the OAL tha is specified is a MINIMUM so going longer some amount is y advised, jus so long ad they still fit in your magazine and feed.

I hope that helped some.

Sorry for the bad iPad spell autocorrector..

[Intimid8tor]

Thanks. I didn't correlate the oal as being the minimum though my concern was creating an overpressure situation so that makes sense and I'm like, duh!

My big concern is creating a dangerous situation so I want to make sure I am understanding all the things that impact pressures, etc. Part of that is understanding what data translates over to other projectiles and what doesn't.

I found this load data in another discussion thread for Ranier 124gr flat point plated.

9mm 124grFP Ctg.
Overall Length 1.090"
MAX OAL 1.169"
Case Remington
Gun Universal receiver
Max Case Length .754"
Trim to Length .744"
Barrel H-S Precision test barrel
Length 4" with 1:10" twist
Primer Winchester small pistol Max. Avg. Pressure 35,000 PSI Max OAL
124 gr FMJ/FP
Alliant Bullseye 3.4 929 24,800
Alliant Bullseye 3.9 1040 31,400
1.169
Alliant Unique 4.2 952 22,800
Alliant Unique 5.2 1109 31,800

That load has a significantly lighter charge than Alliant's recipe for their HP. Alliant does not list a minimum and so I am assuming what they list is the max charge. Part of that could be the difference in the max velocity for plated vs jacketed from a mfg perspective. The minimum OAL on Alliant's page is also longer which could reduce pressure depending on the length of the projectile.

Both Berry's and Ranier say you can use hard cast data since their projectiles most closely mimic the properties of hard cast. If I look in the Lyman manual that I have, for a 120 gr round nose (no unique data for flat nose) it shows a 4.0 gr starting point and OAL of 1.065"

Combining all the data I have, my starting point would be as follows:

124gr Plated flat nose.
OAL 1.095"
4.0 gr Unique
CCI SPP
Light taper crimp.

Then I would work up from there.

Thoughts or concerns?

[NiteQwill]

Just remember, you are using a fast powder with a short OAL (which works in most guns, btw). It is a recipe for large pressure increases. Load cautiously. YMMV.

Slower powders like Power Pistol are more forgiving and allow you to play with short/long OAL safely.

[Bill Steele]

I think you will find that load may be too light to cycle a semi auto pistol.

You were correct on Alliant only listing max on their online load data, on the first page of the website (the one you click OK on to get into the site), they explain they are max and that you should reduce by 10% to get a start load.

In handgun calibers (except some of the hotter magnums), I doubt a full max jacketed load is going to push the bullet hard enough to cause plating separation. You will likely encounter more issues with plating by using too much crimp, then driving the bullets too hard. But in any case, I would use the Alliant data for the Gold Dots (which are also plated bullets), reduce by say 15% to be extra careful and use their minimum OAL (1.120") and give it a go. That will put you in the 5.0gr range at 1.120".

If you have any feed problem (out of the magazine and into the chamber), maybe lengthen the OAL a little until it will feed. If you have any problems with fail to extract (stove pipe spent cases), add a little to the charge weight until it cycles (likely anything close to Alliant's recommended start load of 5.3gr will cycle any gun you are shooting).

I would not be afraid to push them all the way to the Alliant max of 5.8gr, as even at that level the slide action will probably feel kind of sluggish compared to factory ammo (a Unique powder specific thing).

Good luck, have fun.

PS - On the crimp, for semi auto pistols which headspace on the case mouth (most), the term crimp is a poor choice of words. What you do with the crimp is straighten the case. Any additional crimp beyond straightening the case has detrimental effects on your loads. There are a few specific exceptions (like loading 45ACP with LSWC's in some platforms, etc.) but in general, just straighten the case. Try to forget the word crimp when loading for a semi handgun.

[Intimid8tor]

I have power pistol too. I bought when things were tough so it was more of a take what you can get so I ended up with 3 lbs of unique and 8lbs of power pistol. A friend of mine here uses power pistol and he likes it because it fills his case and is less sensitive. I figured I would burn the unique first and then go to the power pistol.

Maybe I should go the other way and learn with the power pistol and save the unique for something else or for later load data. I have some titegroup which I decided to not use yet as I am too new to this and have read that it is pretty sensitive because the smaller amount used.

Good point on the crimp and the straightening of the case. Definitely not crimping anything. Just getting it back to straight using a dillon taper crimp die.

[Bill Steele]

I have power pistol too. I bought when things were tough so it was more of a take what you can get so I ended up with 3 lbs of unique and 8lbs of power pistol. A friend of mine here uses power pistol and he likes it because it fills his case and is less sensitive. I figured I would burn the unique first and then go to the power pistol.

Maybe I should go the other way and learn with the power pistol and save the unique for something else or for later load data. I have some titegroup which I decided to not use yet as I am too new to this and have read that it is pretty sensitive because the smaller amount used.

Good point on the crimp and the straightening of the case. Definitely not crimping anything. Just getting it back to straight using a dillon taper crimp die.

Either will work fine, I prefer PP to Unique for many reasons, but Unique is a favorite of many, definitely a personal taste thing. As a newcomer, they both work great because they will fill the case and make double charges nearly impossible, mainly the only way you will kaboom something at this point in your reloading career.

Good luck, have fun.

PS - Just make a handful of each powder using Alliant's GD receipe -10% or -15%, make a handful more at halfway between Alliant's max and the start load of -10% (Alliant's GD receipe -5%). Almost without fail, that one will cycle all your guns and you will get good results. You BP will go down a great deal on subsequent loads after you have burned through these 30 or so rounds.

[Intimid8tor]

Loaded my first 10 rounds tonight. It was kind of nerve wracking making sure I did everything right.

Dropped about 30 primers on the floor. Found all of them. Whew!

At one point, I did not advance the shell plate. I figured that out before I started the next pull of the handle. Took me a second to check the state of each station and make the necessary corrections.

[Bill Steele]

It gets easier. Hopefully it will never get boring, it does for some.

Good luck, ha ve fun.

[Intimid8tor]

Loaded more tonight. I decided to do some experimenting to see what differences I could note at the risk of creating additional work.

I started at the 4.1 grains and then loaded 10 rounds, increasing .2 gr for each batch, keeping the OAL the same at 1.10. I will test fire those in my Beretta and see how they cycle. I do want a softer shooting round for steel challenge use so finding that sweet spot of soft and cycling will be good.

Plus I like learning something new.

[M27]

use start loads and work up slowly.

The importance of this needs to be stressed more.

one thing to notice is that all loads on alliant's site are maximum loads.

they all ned to be reduced by 10% to start out.

[Intimid8tor]

The importance of this needs to be stressed more.

one thing to notice is that all loads on alliant's site are maximum loads.

they all ned to be reduced by 10% to start out.

That I am definitely doing. I am we'll under the unique max recipes and right in line with the recipes in the Lyman manual.

[M27]

That I am definitely doing. I am we'll under the unique max recipes and right in line with the recipes in the Lyman manual.

I just re-read my post,

It wasn't pointed at you, it was just an in general to all new reloaders. Reloading has grown recently and I feel people are taking shortcuts. If the right politician gets a hold of "someone hurt themselves reloading" there are more California laws to come.

[Intimid8tor]

I just re-read my post,

It wasn't pointed at you, it was just an in general to all new reloaders. Reloading has grown recently and I feel people are taking shortcuts. If the right politician gets a hold of "someone hurt themselves reloading" there are more California laws to come.

No worries and I totally understand. Reloading, especially for a newbie, is not the place for shortcuts.