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.223 Dies...Pacesetter vs. Deluxe

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  • Kahyne
    Member
    • May 2012
    • 138

    .223 Dies...Pacesetter vs. Deluxe

    What's up everyone!

    What is the difference between the Pacesetter and Deluxe die set for .223's? Also, which one would you prefer?

    Thanks for everyone's suggestions in advance!
    NRA Member
  • #2
    rsrocket1
    Veteran Member
    • Feb 2010
    • 2768

    Deluxe has the Collet neck sizer. Great for bolt action guns, not needed if all you shoot are autoloaders. Pacesetter does not have the neck sizer but has the factory crimp die instead.

    Deluxe:
    1. Full length reizing/depriming die
    2. Collet neck sizer/derpimer
    (use #1 or #2, not both)
    3. Seating die

    Pacesetter:
    1. Full Length resizer/depriming die
    2. Seating Die
    3. Factory crimp die - collet type

    both have a single size dipper and a shell holder.

    I prefer the deluxe die only because I may eventually find the need for a neck sizing die. I have no use for a crimp die for .223. I am glad to have purchased the deluxe .308 die set because I have a bolt action .308 and neck size my rounds most of the time.

    You might also consider the 2 die RGB set. It does not include the dipper or shell holder, just the full lenght sizer/decapper die and a seating die. If you have a reloading setup, the dipper is useless and a Lee shell holder costs a couple of bucks.

    Comment

    • #3
      huckberry668
      Senior Member
      • Feb 2007
      • 1502

      i agree with rsrocket1. crimp die for 223 isn't really needed. you may make a case for bullets with cannelure but my experience with them for match loads are not positive.

      Lee neck sizing dies are great. they size the necks from outside onto the mandrel. keeps the neck ID extremely close so neck tension is more consistent. But it's only for brass fired out of a particular bolt gun.
      GCC
      NRA Certified Pistol Instructor
      Don't count your hits and congratulate yourself, count your misses and know why.

      Comment

      • #4
        bryant
        Member
        • Nov 2012
        • 220

        pacesetter die is for magazine type rifle and deluxe die are for bolt action.

        Comment

        • #5
          glock7
          Veteran Member
          • Aug 2010
          • 3390

          Deluxe, I had the pacesetter and didn't care for them and ended up buying the deluxe.
          #blackriflesmatter
          <4 years till retirement, can't wait to leave this state
          California, where all of the good stuff is banned, registered, regulated or prohibited, yay.....

          Law abiding firearm owners have no chance in this state.

          Comment

          • #6
            milotrain
            Veteran Member
            • Apr 2011
            • 4301

            Dillon's dies have a very useful integrated stuck case remover. If you are collecting a lot of range brass I'd consider the dillon resizer at least. It's a great die and will save you a lot of hassle, amortized over the life of reloading it's a very small cost increase.
            weg: That device is obsolete now. They replaced it with wizards.
            frank: Wait a minute. There are more than one wizard? Is [are?] the wizard calibrated?

            Comment

            • #7
              emptybottle151
              Senior Member
              • Oct 2010
              • 1503

              Originally posted by rsrocket1
              Deluxe has the Collet neck sizer. Great for bolt action guns, not needed if all you shoot are autoloaders. Pacesetter does not have the neck sizer but has the factory crimp die instead.

              Deluxe:
              1. Full length reizing/depriming die
              2. Collet neck sizer/derpimer
              (use #1 or #2, not both)
              3. Seating die

              Pacesetter:
              1. Full Length resizer/depriming die
              2. Seating Die
              3. Factory crimp die - collet type

              both have a single size dipper and a shell holder.

              I prefer the deluxe die only because I may eventually find the need for a neck sizing die. I have no use for a crimp die for .223. I am glad to have purchased the deluxe .308 die set because I have a bolt action .308 and neck size my rounds most of the time.

              You might also consider the 2 die RGB set. It does not include the dipper or shell holder, just the full lenght sizer/decapper die and a seating die. If you have a reloading setup, the dipper is useless and a Lee shell holder costs a couple of bucks.
              Why not both? In my experience I use the collet as my primary decapper, wet tumble the brass/dry and then full length resize for loading.
              sigpic

              Comment

              • #8
                firebert
                Senior Member
                • Nov 2011
                • 1349

                Deluxe set comes with the collet resizing die but no factory crimp die. You need factory crimp for semi auto magazine fed, tube fed, and lever action. The collet resizing die is great because it only resizes the neck while keeping your fireform case dimension that is fitted to your chamber BUT it's only recommended for single shot and bolt action.

                In short:
                Deluxe for Bolt action and single shot
                Pacesetter for semi auto and lever action.

                I load both so I just got the Deluxe and paid for the crimp die separately.
                Last edited by firebert; 05-15-2013, 5:37 PM.
                03FFL - NRA Life Member - GOA Member

                Comment

                • #9
                  rsrocket1
                  Veteran Member
                  • Feb 2010
                  • 2768

                  Originally posted by emptybottle151
                  Why not both? In my experience I use the collet as my primary decapper, wet tumble the brass/dry and then full length resize for loading.
                  When you use the neck sizing die to decap, you work the neck down to the proper size, then when you use the full length resizer, you push the expander ball through the neck, then the neck sizer undersizes the neck to be properly sized when the expanding ball gets pulled up out of the neck.

                  That's 4 workings of the neck rather than 2 for a full length resizer only or 1 for a neck sizer only.

                  Now if you anneal your brass, you will do it more often. If you don't you will get split necks much sooner.

                  You need factory crimp for semi auto magazine fed, tube fed, and lever action.
                  I don't agree. You need to crimp if you store your bullets loose and have them rattle around OR if you chamber your rounds multiple times. No need to crimp .223 bullets otherwise. Neck tension ought to be enough to prevent setback during feeding. If you get setback during a normal cycling in a mag fed semi (
                  AR or Mini-14), you probably don't have enough neck tension. Don't know of many tube fed or lever action .223's, but if there are some, I wouldn't mind having one, but I'd want to have soft rubber tipped bullets otherwise I may have some unintended fireworks when they set each other off.
                  Last edited by rsrocket1; 05-15-2013, 7:03 PM.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    milotrain
                    Veteran Member
                    • Apr 2011
                    • 4301

                    I know one person who crimps .223. I know countless others who don't and shoot more .223 than most people shoot anything in a year.
                    weg: That device is obsolete now. They replaced it with wizards.
                    frank: Wait a minute. There are more than one wizard? Is [are?] the wizard calibrated?

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      someoneeasy
                      Senior Member
                      • Feb 2011
                      • 2372

                      I think I have the Deluxe dies for 30-06, but how do you tell the difference between the two? I bought them used and they didn't come with a manual at all. I'm new to reloading and am waiting for components, but I was looking at the dies today and noticed I had two with depriming pins

                      Originally posted by rsrocket1
                      Deluxe has the Collet neck sizer. Great for bolt action guns, not needed if all you shoot are autoloaders. Pacesetter does not have the neck sizer but has the factory crimp die instead.

                      Deluxe:
                      1. Full length reizing/depriming die
                      2. Collet neck sizer/derpimer
                      (use #1 or #2, not both)
                      3. Seating die

                      Pacesetter:
                      1. Full Length resizer/depriming die
                      2. Seating Die
                      3. Factory crimp die - collet type

                      both have a single size dipper and a shell holder.

                      I prefer the deluxe die only because I may eventually find the need for a neck sizing die. I have no use for a crimp die for .223. I am glad to have purchased the deluxe .308 die set because I have a bolt action .308 and neck size my rounds most of the time.

                      You might also consider the 2 die RGB set. It does not include the dipper or shell holder, just the full lenght sizer/decapper die and a seating die. If you have a reloading setup, the dipper is useless and a Lee shell holder costs a couple of bucks.

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        firebert
                        Senior Member
                        • Nov 2011
                        • 1349

                        deluxe set has two resizing dies. If you have two dies with decappers they are both resizing dies.
                        03FFL - NRA Life Member - GOA Member

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          someoneeasy
                          Senior Member
                          • Feb 2011
                          • 2372

                          thats what I figured, but how do you tell which one is which? FL or neck?

                          Originally posted by firebert
                          deluxe set has two resizing dies. If you have two dies with decappers they are both resizing dies.

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            firebert
                            Senior Member
                            • Nov 2011
                            • 1349

                            The full length looks like your typical sizing die. The top is a six sided nut and you can see the decapper pin poking through the top a little.

                            The neck sizing die has a knurled cap on top. Take it apart and you'll see the collet that squeezes the neck onto the mandrel that sizes the neck to .001 smaller than your bullet.
                            03FFL - NRA Life Member - GOA Member

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              someoneeasy
                              Senior Member
                              • Feb 2011
                              • 2372

                              awesome! Thanks, I see exactly what you're talking about. Now I'll know what to do once once I get the rest of my components in.

                              Originally posted by firebert
                              The full length looks like your typical sizing die. The top is a six sided nut and you can see the decapper pin poking through the top a little.

                              The neck sizing die has a knurled cap on top. Take it apart and you'll see the collet that squeezes the neck onto the mandrel that sizes the neck to .001 smaller than your bullet.

                              Comment

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