.223 Dies...Pacesetter vs. Deluxe

[Kahyne]

What's up everyone!

What is the difference between the Pacesetter and Deluxe die set for .223's? Also, which one would you prefer?

Thanks for everyone's suggestions in advance!

[rsrocket1]

Deluxe has the Collet neck sizer. Great for bolt action guns, not needed if all you shoot are autoloaders. Pacesetter does not have the neck sizer but has the factory crimp die instead.

Deluxe:
1. Full length reizing/depriming die
2. Collet neck sizer/derpimer
(use #1 or #2, not both)
3. Seating die

Pacesetter:
1. Full Length resizer/depriming die
2. Seating Die
3. Factory crimp die - collet type

both have a single size dipper and a shell holder.

I prefer the deluxe die only because I may eventually find the need for a neck sizing die. I have no use for a crimp die for .223. I am glad to have purchased the deluxe .308 die set because I have a bolt action .308 and neck size my rounds most of the time.

You might also consider the 2 die RGB set. It does not include the dipper or shell holder, just the full lenght sizer/decapper die and a seating die. If you have a reloading setup, the dipper is useless and a Lee shell holder costs a couple of bucks.

[huckberry668]

i agree with rsrocket1. crimp die for 223 isn't really needed. you may make a case for bullets with cannelure but my experience with them for match loads are not positive.

Lee neck sizing dies are great. they size the necks from outside onto the mandrel. keeps the neck ID extremely close so neck tension is more consistent. But it's only for brass fired out of a particular bolt gun.

[bryant]

pacesetter die is for magazine type rifle and deluxe die are for bolt action.

[glock7]

Deluxe, I had the pacesetter and didn't care for them and ended up buying the deluxe.

[milotrain]

Dillon's dies have a very useful integrated stuck case remover. If you are collecting a lot of range brass I'd consider the dillon resizer at least. It's a great die and will save you a lot of hassle, amortized over the life of reloading it's a very small cost increase.

[emptybottle151]

Deluxe has the Collet neck sizer. Great for bolt action guns, not needed if all you shoot are autoloaders. Pacesetter does not have the neck sizer but has the factory crimp die instead.

Deluxe:
1. Full length reizing/depriming die
2. Collet neck sizer/derpimer
(use #1 or #2, not both)
3. Seating die

Pacesetter:
1. Full Length resizer/depriming die
2. Seating Die
3. Factory crimp die - collet type

both have a single size dipper and a shell holder.

I prefer the deluxe die only because I may eventually find the need for a neck sizing die. I have no use for a crimp die for .223. I am glad to have purchased the deluxe .308 die set because I have a bolt action .308 and neck size my rounds most of the time.

You might also consider the 2 die RGB set. It does not include the dipper or shell holder, just the full lenght sizer/decapper die and a seating die. If you have a reloading setup, the dipper is useless and a Lee shell holder costs a couple of bucks.

Why not both? In my experience I use the collet as my primary decapper, wet tumble the brass/dry and then full length resize for loading.

[firebert]

Deluxe set comes with the collet resizing die but no factory crimp die. You need factory crimp for semi auto magazine fed, tube fed, and lever action. The collet resizing die is great because it only resizes the neck while keeping your fireform case dimension that is fitted to your chamber BUT it's only recommended for single shot and bolt action.

In short:
Deluxe for Bolt action and single shot
Pacesetter for semi auto and lever action.

I load both so I just got the Deluxe and paid for the crimp die separately.

[rsrocket1]

Why not both? In my experience I use the collet as my primary decapper, wet tumble the brass/dry and then full length resize for loading.

When you use the neck sizing die to decap, you work the neck down to the proper size, then when you use the full length resizer, you push the expander ball through the neck, then the neck sizer undersizes the neck to be properly sized when the expanding ball gets pulled up out of the neck.

That's 4 workings of the neck rather than 2 for a full length resizer only or 1 for a neck sizer only.

Now if you anneal your brass, you will do it more often. If you don't you will get split necks much sooner.

You need factory crimp for semi auto magazine fed, tube fed, and lever action.

I don't agree. You need to crimp if you store your bullets loose and have them rattle around OR if you chamber your rounds multiple times. No need to crimp .223 bullets otherwise. Neck tension ought to be enough to prevent setback during feeding. If you get setback during a normal cycling in a mag fed semi (
AR or Mini-14), you probably don't have enough neck tension. Don't know of many tube fed or lever action .223's, but if there are some, I wouldn't mind having one, but I'd want to have soft rubber tipped bullets otherwise I may have some unintended fireworks when they set each other off.

[milotrain]

I know one person who crimps .223. I know countless others who don't and shoot more .223 than most people shoot anything in a year.

[someoneeasy]

I think I have the Deluxe dies for 30-06, but how do you tell the difference between the two? I bought them used and they didn't come with a manual at all. I'm new to reloading and am waiting for components, but I was looking at the dies today and noticed I had two with depriming pins

Deluxe has the Collet neck sizer. Great for bolt action guns, not needed if all you shoot are autoloaders. Pacesetter does not have the neck sizer but has the factory crimp die instead.

Deluxe:
1. Full length reizing/depriming die
2. Collet neck sizer/derpimer
(use #1 or #2, not both)
3. Seating die

Pacesetter:
1. Full Length resizer/depriming die
2. Seating Die
3. Factory crimp die - collet type

both have a single size dipper and a shell holder.

I prefer the deluxe die only because I may eventually find the need for a neck sizing die. I have no use for a crimp die for .223. I am glad to have purchased the deluxe .308 die set because I have a bolt action .308 and neck size my rounds most of the time.

You might also consider the 2 die RGB set. It does not include the dipper or shell holder, just the full lenght sizer/decapper die and a seating die. If you have a reloading setup, the dipper is useless and a Lee shell holder costs a couple of bucks.

[firebert]

deluxe set has two resizing dies. If you have two dies with decappers they are both resizing dies.

[someoneeasy]

thats what I figured, but how do you tell which one is which? FL or neck?

deluxe set has two resizing dies. If you have two dies with decappers they are both resizing dies.

[firebert]

The full length looks like your typical sizing die. The top is a six sided nut and you can see the decapper pin poking through the top a little.

The neck sizing die has a knurled cap on top. Take it apart and you'll see the collet that squeezes the neck onto the mandrel that sizes the neck to .001 smaller than your bullet.

[someoneeasy]

awesome! Thanks, I see exactly what you're talking about. Now I'll know what to do once once I get the rest of my components in.

The full length looks like your typical sizing die. The top is a six sided nut and you can see the decapper pin poking through the top a little.

The neck sizing die has a knurled cap on top. Take it apart and you'll see the collet that squeezes the neck onto the mandrel that sizes the neck to .001 smaller than your bullet.