Is Lapua brass thicker?

[BLR81]

I've been shooting my favorite high end loads with used factory ammo Remington brass. I bought about 4 boxes of Core-lok ammo and have been using the brass to work up loads. At near max loads I've seen only minor firing pin cratering and slightly flattened primers with CCI LRP.

My reloading store got some Lapua brass in so I stocked up with 200 pieces. I worked up (6) loads in 0.3 increments up to my favorite with no change over the Remington cases I had been using. That is I didn't think there was any difference.

While I was resizing the Lupua's and inspecting them with a magnifying glass I noticed 3 were showing ejector smiley faces. Not really noticeable with my normal glasses, but still there. That's 3 out of about 10, while the reused Remington had no ejector signs in 30 cases.

So is this high pressure because the Lapua had less capacity due to thicker brass? If so, will they be fine now that the cases have expanded by fire forming to my chamber. New the head space was .014 tighter than what I usually set them when I resize.

Could it be that the brass is just softer, and I should drop the load down a grain?

[GeoffLinder]

Lapua is generally thicker, so less internal volume, so higher pressure. YES, drop the charge and work it back up.

[mark501w]

The load where the brass marks aren't showing up is probably your max. Reduce by 5%(if you are useing a slow burning powder) work up. You really need more than one case at the end to check pressure.

[J-cat]

Weigh your RP and Lapua cases. The RP should be lighter, indicating they have more internal volume.

[Wrangler John]

Unless you are shooting precision benchrest, Lapua brass offers no advantage over Winchester or Remington bulk packaged brass. I read an article in Guns Magazine where the author did a experiment with various brands of rifle brass, reloading each brand to case failure. Winchester brass went 24 reloads before neck splits and partial head separation and Remington came in second, Lapua much less along with Norma, Lake City and the rest.

My experience with Lapua in 6.5-284 and .22-250 was less than satisfactory in that there were a similar percentage of defective cases in each new batch, about 2%, as the domestic brands, including Hornady. Lapua evidenced a few split and folded neck/shoulder defects and deformed primer pockets. The only brass I have found to be virtually flawless has been Nosler Brass, most likely due to a rigorous inspection prior to packaging.

In .22-250 and .223 Remington, Privi Partisan brass proved to be equal to Winchester in consistency, and at a lower cost. When compared to Lapua, Privi Partisan brass is less that half the cost (www.grafs.com).

In forming Lapua brass into the Ackley Improved profile using hydraulic case forming, it proved to be harder to form, requiring multiple strikes, than Winchester. Formed Lapua brass also required additional annealing after first firing as it had work hardened sufficiently to resist full length sizing due to spring back. So, from my experience I concluded that Winchester, Remington, Privi Partisan and Nosler brass are preferable to the extra expense of Lapua. Given that performance of these brands have resulted in groups of from .200" to .330" over ten shots at 100 yards in all calibers, there is no justification for the added expense and effort in using Lapua.

[RugerNo1]

Wrangler John,

Were you using "brown" box or "blue" box Lapua? The newer "blue" box Lapua that I have bought since they switched has not had any of the defects that you are speaking of.

[J-cat]

What's nice about Lapua is you don't have to ream primer pockets and flash holes or weigh your cases. When you cull out the bad cases, Winchester costs the same. But you do have more internal volume.

[ChrisGarrett]

What's nice about Lapua is you don't have to ream primer pockets and flash holes or weigh your cases. When you cull out the bad cases, Winchester costs the same. But you do have more internal volume.

I do both steps on Lapua brass and get metal to come out, so it's not perfect.

Not as bad as Win, RP or Federal, but both are one time steps and should be performed if you're loading target/match grade ammo.

Chris

[J-cat]

The reason you get metal to come out is because your cutter depth is set to square the worst case scenario. You don't have to ream Lapua.

[Bill Steele]

Personally, for bottle necked rifle, in general I favor Lapua over all others. Lapua is kind of a three bears thing for me, not too hard, not too soft, not perfect but better than most quality wise.

A while back I tried some Hornaday brass and didn't have a good experience. Most recently I tried it again and have to say that at least in my limited experience with it in 308 Win it was superb. I am going to buy some more when the ones I am using now give up the ghost. Amazingly consistent, exceptional case capacity, very durable, I like it!

To the OP, anytime I change components I rework my load. Truth be told, if you stay within published maximums, I doubt any substitution of a component (including magnum primers, tight mil-surp brass, etc.) will result in you breaking something, but for sure, many times, optimal results move around with component changes.

One question to the OP, I was a little fuzzy on the .014" headspace change? What did you mean there?

[ChrisGarrett]

The reason you get metal to come out is because your cutter depth is set to square the worst case scenario. You don't have to ream Lapua.

Sure, you don't 'have to do' any of this stuff.

My Sinclair PP uniformer is set to SAAMI spec for primer depth, so if it's taking metal off, then it's taking metal off that shouldn't be there.

Same with the flash holes. People think that Lapua FHs are drilled and they're not. They're formed around a mandrel and that process can still leave a metal 'burr'.

Chris

[J-cat]

Lapua brass is made to CIP spec.

[ChrisGarrett]

Lapua brass is made to CIP spec.

For over pressure purposes, but not dimensionally.

Do what you want bro, I'm just telling you what I've found and I've used Lapua brass for many years. It's reputatation for consistency has taken a hit over the past few years.

Chris

[J-cat]

I've been using it forever and I haven't had the need to do anything to it. The pockets are consistent. The holes have no burrs. They are lightyears ahead of Win/RP/FC brass.

[BLR81]

Personally, for bottle necked rifle, in general I favor Lapua over all others. Lapua is kind of a three bears thing for me, not too hard, not too soft, not perfect but better than most quality wise.

A while back I tried some Hornaday brass and didn't have a good experience. Most recently I tried it again and have to say that at least in my limited experience with it in 308 Win it was superb. I am going to buy some more when the ones I am using now give up the ghost. Amazingly consistent, exceptional case capacity, very durable, I like it!

To the OP, anytime I change components I rework my load. Truth be told, if you stay within published maximums, I doubt any substitution of a component (including magnum primers, tight mil-surp brass, etc.) will result in you breaking something, but for sure, many times, optimal results move around with component changes.

One question to the OP, I was a little fuzzy on the .014" headspace change? What did you mean there?

I usually take pride in my math skills, but for the life of me I can't explain where I came up with that number.

What I do know is the point I was trying to make is that the new unfired Lapua's had a head space measured on my Lock-N-Load head space guage of 1.615". My fire Remington cased measured 1.623-1.624". The fired cases won't allow the bolt to close. The min size to chamber a case is 1.620, so I resize the Remington's to 1.618. The fired Lapua's measured 1.622, and using the same die set to resize the Remington brass to 1.618, resizes the Lapua's to 1.616.

So the point that I think I was trying to make is that the datum on the shoulder of new Lapua is around .005" tighter than the fired Reminton which isn't showing any ejector signs.

So, I'm wondering if after the Lapua has been fired as many times as the Remington, will the case expand to the same head space measurement at the Remington? I did measure the capacity of the unfired and fired Lapua brass using fine walnut shells, and it does seem to hold between 3/4 and 1 grains less than the Remington brass.

I'll be going out to the range Wed. I'll be trying some more new cases and the 1st fired cases loaded about 1 grain below my previous load. Hopefully I won't see any more pressure signs or lose that much velocity in my long range loads.