First 45Colt - safe, but not so accurate (update)

[orangeusa]

I have prepped a lot of brass, but finally made 12 cartridges. 200gr lead (Redline), Trailboss 5.9-6.0 gr (per Hornady and Lee ).

I shot the rounds today in a Beretta(Uberti) Stampede. All were consistant and quite a bit less stout than (NIB) Black Hills.

I shot a few Black Hills (BH), a few of my reloads.

Accuracy was horrid on my reloads (shooting low) - azimuth was okay. I was hitting 2-3" center at 7 meters with BH, and missing paper in some cases with my reloads. I was nervous.. slightly.

Caveats.
1. Fixed sites on Stampede. (I read where most are calibrated to 255 gr bullets).
2. Loading 1 bullet in the gun at a time on reloads (I doubt this had an effect).
3. Reloads = 200gr, stock BH - 255gr
4. The stock BH had a lot of black blowback on the shells. Reloads had almost none.
5. I KNOW the recipe was correct and accurate - I was weighing each shell before and after powder. And using a volume dipper just to get in the ballpark. I also lined up all 12 before crimp/bullet to make sure volume 'looked' about the same.
6. I'll see if I had much leading (I cleaned the gun completely before shooting).
7. I'm not ruling out nervousness, but that's why I was shooting BH and then reload and repeating..
8. Bullets mic'ed out exactly to .452" as expected, and sizing was spot on for all rounds.
9. Brass was 1ce fired BH that I bought in bulk and really is very consistant in weight...

Basically - the reloads were about 6" low and I was compensating which was stupid... I should have gotten a bigger target - aimed at centermass and let the grouping take shape.

THINGS TO TRY: (FREE SUGGESTIONS WELCOME)
1. I'm going to make 12 with 255gr bullets and see if that was the problem (Trail Boss)
2. Make 12 with Titegroup and 200gr, and 12 with Titegroup and 255gr.
3. Does crimping affect accuracy? I had a tighter crimp than stock BH.

Any other suggestions?

Like I said, the reloads were solid and consistant, but kinda like comparing a 38 to 357 when compared to stock BH.

Oh well, it was fun and I'm in one piece and it's a lot easier than I had it in my mind (if that makes sense). And yes, I was scared as heck on the first shot. I even loaded just one round in case it BLEW UP!

Is it always like this? Tweaking ? Or primarily the 200gr vs 255gr aimpoint? (I read that in a 'Cowboy Reloading' book I bought just for fun)

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[Hallx7]

You can also increase your Trailboss load with the 200 gr and see if your accuracy improves. 6gr is the low end and its what I use when I just want to shoot and don't care about my accuracy. But out of my vaquero I definitely am not shooting 6" low.
Definitely try the Titegroup at various levels but also increase the Trail Boss (within the limits) and try that.

[Hallx7]

And yes.... The tweaking is part of the fun and you will always be doing it

[orangeusa]

You can also increase your Trailboss load with the 200 gr and see if your accuracy improves. 6gr is the low end and its what I use when I just want to shoot and don't care about my accuracy. But out of my vaquero I definitely am not shooting 6" low.
Definitely try the Titegroup at various levels but also increase the Trail Boss (within the limits) and try that.

And yes.... The tweaking is part of the fun and you will always be doing it

lolz !!!!

I'm slightly mad at myself for shooting Kentucky Windage style. I have NO idea what the variance is. The Trail Boss limit (supposedly is 6.5 gr - I have to go home and re-read my loading books.

GOSH THIS IS AS FUN AS SHOOTING!! SERIOUSTALK!!

Pm'ing you for details..

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[Bill Steele]

The 255gr should help. Your POI will change with bullet weight. Well actually, you POI will change with everything (i.e. bullet, charge weight, etc. etc. )

[orangeusa]

Unfortunately, I have a LOT of 200gr, and 100 rounds of 255.

The 255 is hand cast from a dude on GunBroker, the 200gr seems much better quality from Redline.

I'll make a couple of batches tonight/clearly mark them, relax a bit and shoot tomorrow.

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[Bill Steele]

Unfortunately, I have a LOT of 200gr, and 100 rounds of 255.

The 255 is hand cast from a dude on GunBroker, the 200gr seems much better quality from Redline.

I'll make a couple of batches tonight/clearly mark them, relax a bit and shoot tomorrow.

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Maybe up the charge weight a little. Try and get the recoil similar, that may help some.

[orangeusa]

Lee says 6.5gr is max load. That's not the way it felt... I DO have to check for leading, but I seriously doubt that's my problem...

It may be simple as nerves on my first time out with 'homey' reloads. BTW - this is my most accurate gun - Ruger P90, Berettas galore, 586/686, and others... And most fun.

Thanks for input!

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[Hallx7]

Bill is right. Everything is going to change your POI. By changing your load up you should be able to use the 200 gr and find an extremely accurate load.
From my experience you won't get your best accuracy with the Trail Boss but it is a fun round to shoot.
When you're testing your loads shoot from bench rest and aim at a fixed point. This will allow you to see better what the load is actually doing for you. Then when you're all over the place off hand you know it's the Indian and not the arrow

[Capt.Dunsel]

What is the diameter of the bullets your using?
There are alot of 45 LC guns that prefer the Prewar .454 bullets,
you might want to try .451 , .452 and .454 diameters.Will affect accuracy.

Which dies you using ? Some size cases to tighter tolerances for newer guns , some size to older gun specs , check chamber and throat, and slug the bore to make sure.

Try a different powder/load to bring your loads up to 850 to 920 fps , I found that Unique fit the bill in mine. Getting your POA/POI with closer to older velocity and bullet weight , old 45 LC were BP w/255 RN.Lots of 45 LC guns are adjusted for that POI especially fixed sight.

Crimp will effect velocity with this old bird , roll crimp , will help.

Have fun , people laughed at me when I got my first in 45 LC ( Colt Trooper), until they saw it was really accurate with the loads it liked ( exactly at original loadings). They all told me it was a dead cartridge , now make them feel bad with my TC loaded to 44 mag power levels .

And what brass you using ? older ballon head or new manufacture ?

[Bigtls1]

deleted...

[orangeusa]

What is the diameter of the bullets your using?
There are alot of 45 LC guns that prefer the Prewar .454 bullets,
you might want to try .451 , .452 and .454 diameters.Will affect accuracy.

Which dies you using ? Some size cases to tighter tolerances for newer guns , some size to older gun specs , check chamber and throat, and slug the bore to make sure.

Try a different powder/load to bring your loads up to 850 to 920 fps , I found that Unique fit the bill in mine. Getting your POA/POI with closer to older velocity and bullet weight , old 45 LC were BP w/255 RN.Lots of 45 LC guns are adjusted for that POI especially fixed sight.

Crimp will effect velocity with this old bird , roll crimp , will help.

Have fun , people laughed at me when I got my first in 45 LC ( Colt Trooper), until they saw it was really accurate with the loads it liked ( exactly at original loadings). They all told me it was a dead cartridge , now make them feel bad with my TC loaded to 44 mag power levels .

And what brass you using ? older ballon head or new manufacture ?

I'm good - new gun (2 years old) 0.451" barrel, 0.452" bullets, Lee dies designed for newer (i.e. post 1940's from what I read) 45Colt. CONFIDENCE, powder and Crimping (I believe - and in that order) are my issues...

I know I'm good since I measured the stock Black Hills (BH) and the reloads were dead on with NIB boolits....

Brass is once shot (and it looks like they are to me) - Black Hills.

I'm a deadeye with Black Hills over the counter ammo (or at least for ME..).

I think the guys are on to something with the Trail Boss - I checked other sources and 6 grains is really not that much.

So - tonight, I'm making various 200gr/255gr cartridges with Trail Boss and TiteGroup.. I'm sure one or two will be a hit.

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[sixgunner]

I have shot Cowboy Action matches for ten years. I switched to Trail-boss when it came out. I load 6.6 gr for 205 and 255 Bear creek Moly coated cast bullets. Have shot tens of thousands of them. No worries hitting steel at 50 yards with my 73 Colts. Same load works great in Win 73 rifle. Keep up the reloading. 45 Colt is a great cartridge. When you hit you grove you will be glad you kept at it.

[orangeusa]

Thanks for the input. I noticed that I was wrong - Lee had a milder load than than the Hornady manual for the same load.

But I think I need to go to the IMR mothership (same as Hodgdon/Winchester) and get their info for 200/255gr and TrailBoss/TiteGroup.

Looks like I'll be shooting on Thursday... not tomorrow.

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[orangeusa]

Update 03-May-2013 - 45Colt testing

Finally did 4 loads - 6 rounds each. All shot well.

1. 200gr LRNFP, Trailboss soft load (from IMR website)
2. 200gr LRNFP, Trailboss max load (from IMR website)
3. 255gr LRNFP, Trailboss soft load (from IMR website)
4. 255gr LRNFP, Trailboss max load (from IMR website)

Results :
1. Not completely conclusive - my vision had a bigger variance than these loads.

2. Load #2 shot a quarter sized hole !

3. Loads #1 and #3 - soft loads seemed to have more variance than the max loads.

4. My first 'POA/POI' was probably just nerves. The 200gr this time seemed to be a bit low - 1-2" but I'll shoot like 50 more - after I get bench rest shooting down a little more.

Lessons learned :

1. I suck at bench shooting.

2. Use a large target with a crosshair. ( I have to re-do the tests )
I'll probably tape a crosshair target on a mansized outline target.

3. Recoil of 200gr vs 255gr was the big difference that I was noting on reloads vs. stock Black Hills.

4. Don't prime before resizing! (noob mistake - I did like 500 rounds this way ).

5. Ask questions of smart guys, read a couple manuals, ask more questions of the smart guys.. repeat as necessary.

6. The Lee scale was a lot easier to use and faster than electronic. I never got consistant enough with 'dippers' esp with donut sized Trail Boss.

7. Also, I made a shell holder (drilled a block of wood) so I could place 25 rounds vertical after dropping powder just as a 'visual check' before seating bullet and crimping.

8. Probably the hardest thing for me was getting the bullet seat/crimper set. Dark Mod showed me in a few minutes, but having a bullet puller and using an inert round to dialiin the crimp.

9. Shooting at an indoor range and tryign to bench with all these RO's nervously looking at you makes one nervous. One time, I was using the bench and was on my knees shooting. lolz... They didn't like that...

I dunno. There is a great feeling to making your own rounds, but you knew that. I didn't.

Saga is not over, but I don't think I'll even play with TiteGroup... YMMV

Thanks to Dark Mod, Bronco, Hallx7, Bill Steele and many others for their assistance and patience.

I made it sound a lot harder than it really is.

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