Seating off the lands... which tool or method?

[ExtremeX]

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/570611/hornady-lock-n-load-overall-length-gage-bolt-action?cm_vc=sugv1709931

Any other tools that do a better job or are a better value, or tool-less method you guys can recommend?

[ChrisGarrett]

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/570611/hornady-lock-n-load-overall-length-gage-bolt-action?cm_vc=sugv1709931

Any other tools that do a better job or are a better value, or tool-less method you guys can recommend?

I've got both the curved tool and the straight tool, along with 15 modified cases.

There's a method and finesse that one acquires after using the tool for a while. Use multiple measurements of 3, or 5 different bullets and then average everything out. Keep the bullets in a baggie with the measurements so you can measure throat errosion going forward.

Get that, their headspace gage set and their bullet comparator gage set and you're golden.

Chris

[ExtremeX]

I got all that crap in my cart right now haha…

I saw another video where someone just removed the firing pin from their bolt and just kept seating the bullet down until bolt closed without resistance, then just added a few tho for seating past that point. Seems like a cool way to do it without tools.

I do like the idea of being able to measure throw erosion and getting some firm numbers using this tool to record distance and measurements.

Thanks for the insight.

[ExtremeX]

In terms of their headspace guage… I ordered the LE Wilson headspace gauges already, but I feel like I’m doubling up on what I actually need… I think I should have went with the Hornady tool from the get-go as it’s a little difficult to actually get measurements off that Wilson.

I guess it’s still an easier tool to use for spot checking Min/max SAMMI specs.

[ExtremeX]

I've got both the curved tool and the straight tool, along with 15 modified cases.

Chris

Do you use the Hornady modified case which cost like 5-6 bucks or do you make your own?

I was thinking of making my own with a tap/die set so I could use the exact case I have which has been headspaced correctly for my rifle.

Do you think this matters?

[ChrisGarrett]

I have drop-in HS gages for a dozen cartridges and while the pistol ones are good, the rifle versions don't tell you all that much.

For setting up rifle sizing dies, you need to take 'fired case' measurements at the datum line, or some arbitrary point on the shoulder and subtract .002" for bolt guns and .003" for gas guns.

The RCBS Precision Mic is good, but cartridge specific. Sinclair makes a bump gage similar to the Hornady unit and then there is this one, from Larry Willis at Innovative Technologies:

http://www.larrywillis.com/

Chris

[ChrisGarrett]

Do you use the Hornady modified case which cost like 5-6 bucks or do you make your own?

I was thinking of making my own with a tap/die set so I could use the exact case I have which has been headspaced correctly for my rifle.

Do you think this matters?

I bought most of mine off of Ebay for cheap and I have modified cases for cartridges that I don't reload and don't own weapons for, lol. I kind of went on a binge 5-6 years back, buying them in groups.

There was a fellow on Ebay selling the split tip bit and the other bit, for making your own, years back, but he said you really needed a lathe type dohickey to tap the hole in a perfectly straight manner.

For me, 5-$6 is worth it, as I don't have a lathe, or drill press. I need to get one for 338LM, but I shoot that at mag length, so it's not a biggie. You can always use the 'dummy method' for finding the lands, if you're not into spending the money.

If you send two fired cares to Hornady, they'll dial one up for you, for a more precise fit.

Drop in gages are just an arbitrary SAAMI 'hole' that tells you when things are way out of whack, but nothing about setting your sizer die up to match your chamber's specs.

Chris

[Bill Steele]

I have used most of the usual suspects (not counting the tool in your link) and have concluded none are perfect. The way I am doing it now is the case with the slits in the neck that allows he bullet to slide back after it contacts the lands, thus after closing the bolt and then carefully ejecting the round, a comparator gives you an accurate dimension to the lands for that particular bullet profile.

The downside with is technique is you need to do the measurement multiple times to ensure you got an accurate measurement. I also use a little lube on the bullet to make sure the bullet isn't sticking in the lands and getting pulled out, making the dimension long.

If you have a relatively new factory 700 barrel, you will likely have something in the mag length +.150" +\- as the final measurement.

Good luck, have fun.

[koehn,jim]

Try taking a dummy sized case put for slits in the neck so it just grips a bullet. seat a bullet longer than normal, insert in chamber and close the bolt. Remove carefully and measure the overall length. The bullet will have stopped when it hit the lands. I than subtract a couple of thousands and it seems to work fine.

[Pete1979]

I have used most of the usual suspects (not counting the tool in your link) and have concluded none are perfect. The way I am doing it now is the case with the slits in the neck that allows he bullet to slide back after it contacts the lands, thus after closing the bolt and then carefully ejecting the round, a comparator gives you an accurate dimension to the lands for that particular bullet profile.

The downside with is technique is you need to do the measurement multiple times to ensure you got an accurate measurement. I also use a little lube on the bullet to make sure the bullet isn't sticking in the lands and getting pulled out, making the dimension long.

If you have a relatively new factory 700 barrel, you will likely have something in the mag length +.150" +\- as the final measurement.

Good luck, have fun.

Very true, My SPS Tactical starts to group well with a Sierra 2200 loaded at 2.885 or a Hornady 168 HPBT loaded at 2.920. I've loaded Amaxes out to something like 2.950 before they got close to the lands but that leaves very little in the case, bench only...

[BLR81]

If you're looking for the cartridge length to the lands, then the Hornady is as good as any other. But, you do have to buy or make a case for each caliber you shoot.

The cheapest way I found is with a 1/4" wooden rod. close the bolt and run the rod down the bore until it hits the bolt face. Mark the rod at the end of the barrel. Load a dummy cartridge with the bullet you plan to shoot, seated very long. Long enough that you can't close the bolt. While putting pressure on the bolt, just enough to hold the bullet into the lands, place the rod back down the barrel until it touches the bullet. Mark the rod, then measure the distance between the marks and you have your seating length just to the lands.

If you force the bullet into the lands too hard, you'll damage the ogive of the bullet and get incorrect readings. That's why I don't like the seat the dummy bullet and try to force it into battery then seat it deeper method. Each time you force the cartridge into the lands you need to seat a new bullet to get an accurate reading.

If you use the wooden rod method, and you load a lot of different bullets the rod gets pretty messed up. I found some plastic spacers at HD which were an inch long with a hole down the length just slightly longer than my cleaning rod. I drilled a hole half way thru the spacer and perpendicular to the hole down the bore. I tapped it for the thread of some plastic screws and use them instead of the wooden dowel rods.

I close the bolt, then place a spacer on my cleaning rod. Run the rod down the bore until it hits the bolt face. Slide the spacer down the cleaning rod until it touches the end of the barrel, and tighten the screw on the spacer. Now do the same with the bullet in the chamber with the 2nd spacer on the cleaning rod. Repeat and the distance between the barrel side of each spacer is your length to the lands.

I'm sure you can do it many different ways. Whatever floats your boat.

[ar15barrels]

Do you use the Hornady modified case which cost like 5-6 bucks or do you make your own?

I was thinking of making my own with a tap/die set so I could use the exact case I have which has been headspaced correctly for my rifle.

the tap is a weird size that a typical tap/die set will not have.
I have the tap and have modified a few cases with it.
It's best to do the drill and tap in a lathe to ensure that you get the threads straight down the middle of the case.
I would not want to drill and tap a case without proper machine tools...