Blue dot and .45 acp??

[gottarollwithit]

Hi Guys,

So my powder thrower is off just slightly... I'm building .45acp loads using blue dot. The Alliant website states a max of 9.8gr. They specifically say not to exceed that. My thrower is dumping powder somewhere in the range of 9.8-10.1gr. This means occasionally i'm overcharging by a max of .3gr. Do you think this will be safe to shoot? My load specs are as follows:

Nickel plated Remi cases - a few are loaded using brass with TZZ headstamp
Rainier plated 230gr HP
9.8-10.1gr blue dot
Fed Gold Medal 150 primers
OAL: 1.25"

Thanks!

[mike100]

I don't know about Blue Dot(check older manuals to see if the max used to be higher), but it is my policy to hand measure each load when running at max load. I usually only load magnum revolvers to max though.

is it a compressed charge?

[gottarollwithit]

Compressed charge? Is that defined as the bullet squishing down on the powder, thus shrinking the volume that it would usually take?

If so, i don't think so.

[dgey]

If you got these load figures from a recent source, you'll be fine. The older books give you hotter loads. The loads today are written with lawyers... better safe than a law suit by some sue happy individual. you're loading info is fine...

doug

[r08ert209cali]

dido on hand measuring max loads

[gottarollwithit]

I got the recipe from the Alliant website. I'm assuming that's a recent source?? I used a recipe for jacked HP's, not plated or pure lead HP's. Do you think this will add to the problem? Rainier suggests dialing down JHP recipes by 10% as well...

I know that they specifically say to not exceed the max of 9.8gr, and i did. I understand that this thread is almost based on a stupid question. I mainly ask b/c i'm only .2gr over on most of the cartridges. I'm not lookin to have my 1911 fall apart in my paws, but mainly to just safely shoot this stuff off.

As for measuring each charge. I think that's what i'm going to do in the future. This is exactly how i figured out the range of error in my thrower. I was measuring almost every other charge and very few of them exceeded 10gr.


Thanks again!

[sargenv]

Whether it's compressed or not. If you are exceeding max then you need a better powder measure. Blue Dot is generally a powder that meters well. Can you exceed the powder manufacturer's advice, you can, will it cause a problem, it might, it might not. The older data for Blue dot was due to the older lots allowing more powder for a given pressure. Almost all of the Blue dot data changed after the plant that produces Blue dot had a catastrophic explosion and fire sometime inthe early 90's. I still have some old production Blue dot who's data is different from the data of current Blue dot.

My question is.. why are you using such a slow powder for 45 acp? Do you like the fire and flash that Blue Dot provides? Blue dot is generally a powder used in magnum revolvers.. 357 magnum specifically. You can use it but man is it ever going to recoil.. but then.. I used to do this myself 45 acp was really not meant to be a magnum handgun.. when they built them initially for the full power 10 mm, they were cracking frames and slides left and right. Be careful..

[bear93445]

do not shoot it!

This is just my $.02

Enjoy and be safe

[Fjold]

.3 grains is further off than I would allow myself for rifle charges of 40 -70 grains. It is way to big of an error for a load of 9.8 grains.

[gottarollwithit]

Hmm, all very interesting advice.
The blue dot powder used is fairly old. It's from when it still came in the silver cardboard canisters - not the recent black plastic ones. Is the older stuff less potent than that of new?
I agree that this is on the boarderline of dangerous and that this ought to never happen again, unless it's intentional.

And yea, i love the flash and fire of blue dot. Do you think my 5" Nighthawk GRP will be able to consume 100rds of it?

I'm still on the fence here... Part of me is saying take the cartridges apart just b/c there is a chance that it might be unsafe, but the other part of me is telling me to just pop it off carefully looking for pressure signs. I'd be running 1911 which is fairly resistant to excessive loads and the powder is a bit old.

Is my logic skewed here?

[gottarollwithit]

No thoughts????

Thanks!!

[Ceemack]

Is my logic skewed here?

Yes, in several ways.

First, a .3 grain variation is measured charges is fairly big for a powder like Blue Dot. I'd take a hard look at my powder measure if I was seeing that kind of variability from charge to charge.

Second, you can bet that the data Alliant is publishing on its web site is based on current-production powder. The stuff you're using is fairly old--judging from the packaging, it's easily 10+ years old. Does the behavior of your old can of Blue Dot match today's Blue Dot exactly? I wouldn't be too sure. It might be milder than the current stuff, or it might be hotter.

Third, the particular load data at which you're looking calls for a nice hard JHP, which is quite a different animal from those soft, thinly-plated Rainiers you're using. The pressure curve with a Rainier won't be the same as for a convential jacketed bullet. It's also a load that's at the far upper end of what's safe in the .45 ACP. Combining that load with Rainier bullets is a risky proposition, even if you're scale-weighing 9.8 grain powder charges.

Fourth, and probably most important, by your own admission you're doing something that no reloader should ever do: exceed published maximums. Is there some fudge-factor built into the published maximums? Probably. Should you ever rely on that, even a little bit? Absolutely not.

A .45 ACP is what it is: a tool for throwing a 230-grain slug at just under 850 fps. Your best bet is to use it for what it is. And for those velocities, you'll find that Blue Dot is a poor performer. You're better off with one of the more traditional .45 ACP powders, like 231, Bullseye or Unique. Blue Dot is much better suited to higher-pressure rounds, like 9mm and .357 Magnum.

If you've really got to push a 230-grain bullet to 900 fps (and don't try for anything faster), it can be done pretty safely with Power Pistol. If you like blast and recoil, you'll love Power Pistol.

[Riodog]

#1. Bluedot can be hard to ignite under certain circumstances.
#2. It should be used in a cartridge with a 'longer burn time" that what you're using it for.
#3. Incomplete burning leaves a dirty gun.
#4. .3 is mucho inaccurate for my taste.
#5. Don't sacrifice common sense for the savings of not tossing a few misloaded rounds in the trash. (properly disposed of, no less).

#6. Last but not least,,,,,Don't ever shoot anywhere around me!!!

Rio

[gottarollwithit]

Eww... I guess i'll be pulling it down then.

Thx for the honest advice. I'd much rather have truthful advice than a shattered pile of gun parts.

[f4tweet]

De-mill, and don't even think about firing it.