AR-15 Primers - Advice?

[doc540]

liffs:
email from Natchez saying primers were in stock

ordered 10K Tula "Small Rifle Magnum" primers
(TULA makes three different 'small' primers)

3-4 weeks later they arrived

boxes are marked "Small Rifle .223 Rem", not "Magnum"

called and waited on hold thru 52 other calls (keep working on the bench)

rep says, "hmmm...let me ask someone about that"

comes back on the line and says...
"We noticed that and called our supplier (Tula?) and they said 'THOSE ARE REALLY MAGNUM PRIMERS even though the box isn't marked as such'. So, don't worry about reloading them for your AR-15".

I sent them an email asking to put that in writing.

Guess I'll try a few and see what happens reloading .223, not max 5.56 NATO loads.

What say you?

btw: I like doing business with Natchez.

[joelogic]

First, Tula's Magnum primers were not hotter, they just had a stronger cup.

The .223 Remington primers are for semi-auto.

So you should be in the clear.

[doc540]

First, Tula's Magnum primers were not hotter, they just had a stronger cup.

The .223 Remington primers are for semi-auto.

So you should be in the clear.

Much appreciated, friend.

[joelogic]

No problem. All I use is Tula and I have watched them change model name after model name. They even came out with 5.56 Nato primers.

[morrow]

First, Tula's Magnum primers were not hotter, they just had a stronger cup.

The .223 Remington primers are for semi-auto.

So you should be in the clear.

joelogic no offense but this is false information. I think you just didn't word it properly. Tula/Wolf (same company, exact same primers) make 3 different small rifle primers:
For Tula the numbers are as follows:
KVB223 = small rifle primers
KVB556M = small rifle magnum primers
KVB223M = most people call these "AR15 primers" ---they are the exact same thing as small rifle primers however they have a harder cup. They are NOT magnum. The serial number IS misleading. These are ideal for AR15s as they have a floating firing pin and can dimple softer cup small rifle primers, and in rare cases cause slam-fires.

*EDIT* i've seen several people make this same mistake with Wolf/Tula primers over the years. This really needs to be a sticky or something. IDK. I hate to see how often it gets mixed up because the naming and serial numbers are very misleading :/

[doc540]

That explains it then.

The Tula "Small Rifle .223 Rem" primers must be their latest and greatest.

They told Natchez they were actually "magnum" primers.

Hope my AR likes'em. I'll watch the cups for any signs of volcanic activity.

Slam fires....well, we don't want those.

[joelogic]

Which part is incorrect?
The magnums are actually magnum?

[morrow]

Which part is incorrect?
The magnums are actually magnum?

Part of what you said was false:

First, Tula's Magnum primers were not hotter, they just had a stronger cup.

That was incorrect. It depends which one you buy. KVB556M = magnum and KVB223M = stronger cup non-magnum.

[morrow]

That explains it then.

The Tula "Small Rifle .223 Rem" primers must be their latest and greatest.

They told Natchez they were actually "magnum" primers.

Hope my AR likes'em. I'll watch the cups for any signs of volcanic activity.

Slam fires....well, we don't want those.

They are not the latest and greatest. They've been around for years and years. If the model on your box is in fact KVM223M then you did not receive what you originally ordered (small rifle magnum primers as you said). This is a common mistake that happens with certain suppliers and especially during buying crazes where they are moving a lot of stock. Those will however, even though they aren't magnum, will work wonderfully for your AR15 unless you're using some type of magnum primer specific load.

Does your receipt list the part# or a lengthier description of what you actually ordered? Or does it just say "small rifle magnum primers"?

[doc540]

So, the one's I received and marked "Small Rifle .223 Rem" are ok to use in my AR?

I'm only loading 26gr of Varget or 24gr of IMR 3031 under 50gr soft points.

Natchez claims to have called their distributor (I'm guessing Tula) and were told even though the boxes are marked "Small Rifle .223 Rem", they are magnum primers.

That's my basic question.

Order says: "TLKVB223M SMALL MAGNUM RIFLE PRIMERS"

The box says different.

[morrow]

So, the one's I received and marked "Small Rifle .223 Rem" are ok to use in my AR?

Natchez claims to have called their distributor (I'm guessing Tula) and were told even though the boxes are marked "Small Rifle .223 Rem", they are magnum primers.

That's my basic question.

I got my order of Tula primers 2 weeks ago from PVI. The box are labeled "small rifle 223 rem" as yours are. These are not magnum primers. They are normal small rifle primers with a harder cup. They will work perfectly in your AR15 unless you have some type of magnum specific load worked up that you use.

Natchez was wrong telling you they're magnums. They most likely say the "M" in the serial# and assumed magnum. Tula/Wolf have a bad serial number system.

In addition these primers are the ones Tula has shipped recently to suppliers. We most likely have the same lot# or similar.

[joelogic]

This is goes back to Wolf labeling, from my own testing and other forum discussion the magnum primers were not any hotter they just had stronger cups to withstand the pressure. Wolf only introduced Small rifle and small magnum at the beginning and they received a lot of concerns regarding slam fires and started telling people to use the magnums for semi-autos. This is why they started with the different names. 5.56 Nato and .223 Rem Primers.

For most other brands the magnums are hotter but not with wolf/tula. Their sr/srm primers chrono the same speed for a given load. And the magnums can still have a hard time lighting milsurp powder.

Feel free to disagree. But you can tell even from Tula's response that the magnums were the .223 rem primers and that they are the same.

[morrow]

This is goes back to Wolf labeling, from my own testing and other forum discussion the magnum primers were not any hotter they just had stronger cups to withstand the pressure. Wolf only introduced Small rifle and small magnum at the beginning and they received a lot of concerns regarding slam fires and started telling people to use the magnums for semi-autos. This is why they started with the different names. 5.56 Nato and .223 Rem Primers.

For most other brands the magnums are hotter but not with wolf/tula. Their sr/srm primers chrono the same speed for a given load. And the magnums can still have a hard time lighting milsurp powder.

Feel free to disagree. But you can tell even from Tula's response that the magnums were the .223 rem primers and that they are the same.

There is no disagreement here. I am simply providing correct information. The OP got the normal small rifle primers with harder cups (non-magnum).

Again, for wolf and tula (wolf has slightly different model#s)

KVB223 = small rifle primers
KVB556M = small rifle magnum primers
KVB223M = most people call these "AR15 primers" ---they are the exact same thing as small rifle primers however they have a harder cup. They are NOT magnum. The serial number IS misleading. These are ideal for AR15s as they have a floating firing pin and can dimple softer cup small rifle primers, and in rare cases cause slam-fires.

That's just facts, man. If you get the KVB556M those are in fact real deal magnum primers. They are hotter than KVB223 or KVB223M.

If you want to disagree with the facts, which you aren't really doing because you keep only talking about 2 of the 3 primers, you're wrong. There is a hotter small rifle magnum primer provided by Wolf and Tula for purchase.

*EDIT* what you most likely tested between was the KVB223 and KVB223M and you thought that the KVB223M were magnums due to their retarded model numbering system by Wolf/Tula. Those 2 models as i've said several times are both non-magnum and will yield the same results. If you use the KVB556M it's a whole different ballgame as those are in fact magnum primers.

[doc540]

I'll load some up and test them.

If they work, the Dillon 550's gonna get busy.

[morrow]

Yep doc540, looks like we have the same lot#