.50 AE on a dillon 650/sonic cleaner question

[hemiguy55]

Does anyone know what casefeed plate to use for .50 AE brass? I googled it and I read on another forum to use the magnum/XL plate and couldn't find a plate that was labeled that so I ordered the biggest one, the large rifle one. Now I got it and the spacing/gaps on the plate just seem excessively big to me. I probably ordered the wrong one, but could anyone point me in the right direction?
I also just got the hornady magnum sonic cleaner and on the box it reads for brass only. I would imagine putting nickel plated AE rounds in there would be ok right? Which leads me to another question, how long do I set the timer on the machine for and at what temperature? Is there a guideline any of you sonic cleaner guys follow for cleaning at certain temps and times?

[lincoln45]

Plan in Action--Beakers Speed Clean-Up
My brass test subjects were 6-times-fired .308 Lapua brass that had never been tumbled, and was on the verge of head separation. For a little variety, I also ran some dirty 17 Rem and .243 Win cases that were sent to me by a few forum members for this project. I decided to only use a couple cases in each run, as that was all that was needed to tell me if the procedure would work or not. I also segregated the different solutions in beakers within the water filled tank. This allowed me to test several solutions at once without dumping and cleaning the entire tank in between runs.

Before you ask, NO, the glass beaker doesn’t stop the ultrasonic action from penetrating to the casings inside. All cases were deprimed with a universal decapping die for optimal cleaning of all surfaces. At right are the .243 cases in the beaker waiting for solution to be added.

Testing Various Solutions--The Search for the Ideal Chemical Cocktail
First up was the Kaboom, as this was similar to CLR and has been used by several people I know (as well as myself) to clean cases manually. I did a couple runs with dilutions of Kaboom (1:8 and 1:20). After two 480-second cycles (16 minutes), the cases were very clean and shiny so I finished with a rinse cycle and dried them. The brass looked great as soon as it came out of the water. Devoid of any carbon deposits inside and out, the cases were shiny as new. Well in the morning the cases were varying shades of purple and other colors as the Kaboom had done something strange to the brass. I worried about what the chemicals might be doing to the brass, so the Kaboom was eliminated from further testing. I should have abided by the warning on the bottle to not use it on brass.

Next up was the GUNK parts cleaner. My best run with GUNK resulted in brass that was still dull, but somewhat clean. The color remained unchanged, and the inside of the case was about 70% clean, with the primer pockets being totally clean. The remaining carbon was concentrated on the inside of the case head more than the walls or neck. The harsh solvent smell and attributes made me less interested in this using this, so it too was moved to the back burner.

The most expensive cleaner, Carbon-Off, was next at bat. Carbon-off from Discovery Products costs about $22 per quart delivered, and is hard to obtain. Though this seemed like the perfect answer to my question, it was in fact the worst of the bunch! Smell was worse than the GUNK, and on top of that it was a gel and could not be diluted! Running it through the same cycle as the GUNK basically just shined up the case a bit. 95% of the carbon was still there. So Carbon-off was added to the junk pile.

Many people recommend Simple Green for carbon removal, so since I already had some, I threw it in the test as well. A 25% solution did almost nothing for the carbon, so in an effort to expedite the evaluation, I went straight to 100%. The simple green still did almost nothing to clean the inside of the cases! On top of that, in the morning, the cases looked like they had been buried underground for a few years--very dark and irregular-colored. Simple Green, by itself, was no good either.

Next I tested the only specific commercial entry, Birchwood Casey Brass Cartridge Case Cleaner (BC). This was chosen as the only commercial entry because it was the most economical. The directions recommended a three-minute soak time with agitation. If three minutes was good, eight minutes was better right? The solution was diluted as prescribed on the container and one eight-minute cycle was run followed by a hot water and distilled water rinse. Well, the cases looked beautiful on the outside (brighter than new actually), but they were still very dirty inside as well as around the neck. Since I had already exceeded the recommended soak time by almost 300%, and the cases still weren’t clean enough, the Birchwood Casey cleaner was set aside as well.




Old-Fashioned White Vinegar (with Soap) Works the Best


Now we get to the good stuff. I was desperately hoping vinegar would prove useful and justify the time and money spent on this project. It was now down to the least expensive solution I had. Dish soap had also been mentioned in the forums, so I decided to incorporate it as well. My first trial used full strength vinegar with a drop of soap, and a cycle similar to the others. This showed promise, giving a perfectly clean case, but turned the cases a dark patina once again. I also tried a 50% solution of vinegar and it gave the same results, so there was no need to use it full strength. Fifty percent white vinegar was the best solution yet, so I decided to stick with it and tweak it for the best and fastest results.

The Mad Chemist Needs A Neutralizing Agent
At this point the brass was coming out with no carbon deposits whatsoever, but I wasn’t happy with the darkening of the brass so I figured a neutralization step was needed after the vinegar to stop the acid’s reaction. A water rinse was fine with the acidic BC case cleaner, but not sufficient with vinegar. Baking soda (BS) seemed like the easiest and most readily available option to neutralize the reaction. The BS was simply dissolved in water in the proportion shown below. I went through nearly a dozen runs to come up with the best combination of vinegar, dish soap and baking soda.

ULTRASONIC CLEANING — Baney's Best Recipes

My ultimate solution resulted in shiny brass that was 100% devoid of carbon, inside and out. Even the carbon deposits on the neck and the primer pockets were completely removed! My objective had been accomplished! Dirty old black brass came out like new inside and out…I was amazed. Not only did my protocol work well, but it was the least expensive option in the whole test! For "Cheap and Clean," this is the procedure I settled on:

CHEAP and CLEAN
24 minutes - 50% Vinegar + 1 Drop Dish Soap per 8 ounces water
480 seconds - Baking Soda (BS) in water (1 grain BS per ounce of water)
480 seconds - Hot Water
480 seconds - Distilled Water
Total: 48 minutes
Cost: Less than $2.00 per gallon

And for a Super Shiny and FASTER End Result, Add BC Solution
Since the BC solution had worked so well to shine up the cases earlier, I attempted to work it in with the vinegar procedure to streamline it even more and give even better looking brass. So for a couple dollars more, you can have 100% clean cases, which are even shinier than the "Cheap and Clean" procedure above. So this procedure I'll call "Clean and Shiny."




CLEAN and SHINY
24 minutes - 50% Vinegar + 1 Drop Dish Soap per 8 ounces water
380 seconds - Birchwood Casey (BC) Case Cleaner
380 seconds - Hot Water
380 seconds - Distilled Water
Total: 43 minutes
Cost: $2.00 per gallon for the Vinegar and $4.00 per gallon for BC Cleaner.

This "Clean and Shiny" procedure gave me the best combination of carbon removal, case luster, speed, and economy. The "Clean and Shiny" regimen also eliminates the neutralization step, as the BC cleaner acts as a neutralizer. Even though it contains a few acids, they must rinse off more readily than vinegar. Regular household vinegar is 5% acetic acid (2.5% when diluted) and the BC cleaner contains 3 different acids, one of which is phosphoric (the same found in pepsi). It starts at over 50% acid as a concentrate, and a little over 3% when diluted.





Case Care Following Ultrasonic Cleaning
After removing the cases from the final distilled water rinse, I simply blow them out with compressed air and lay them on a paper towel to dry overnight. A hair dryer works well too, especially if you get the air in the case mouth. In the morning you have clean, shiny dry brass ready to size. If you have no air compressor, simply whip them around by hand a few times to force any water drops out of the case mouth. Then lay them on a paper towel to dry overnight.


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CONCLUSION--It Was Well Worth the Effort
Though I wasted some money on solutions that performed poorly, I am happy with the results so it was worth it. I never thought I would be able to make dirty, fired brass look like new again!

I've now processed many 308s and some 8X 6.5-284 cases using the "Cheap and Clean" process, and I’m very satisfied with the fact that I can almost see my reflection inside the case! Believe it or not, there was no physical work involved in cleaning the cases, just the right solutions and a bit of time in the Ultrasonic. So, quit wasting your time with vibratory tumblers or manual labor and try my protocol with an ultrasonic unit of your choice.

WARNING: The unit makes a noise that is not real friendly to your ears, so make sure to run it in a place that wont annoy the others in your household. It isn’t loud, just annoying--but no more annoying that a running tumbler!

[3006mv]

isn't it the same as .44 magnum?

[hemiguy55]

Ya now that you said that I remember lookn at the length of a 44 mag case and a 50 ae case and they were identical. Or supposed to be. So it would make sense to use the 44 mag plate. But what do you guys set your sonic cleaner temperatures at and for how long? Is there a rule of thumb you guys use? Or is ok to use the same temp and time for all cases no matter what caliber/size?