Opinion. Accuracy or velocity. Whats your flavor?

[cruddymutt]

I loaded up a new load for my 1911. I used Missouri Bullet Co 200gr LRN 12 bhn, Wolf LPP, and 5 gr Unique. My friend uses Missouri Bullet Co 200gr LRN 18 bhn, unknown primers, and 8.2gr Unique. He boast that he is going at 1100+ fps but has to aim 3-4 inches low at 20 yards.
I expected my 1911 to shoot high as well but wanted to see how off it was so I aimed dead center @ 20 yards and low and behold it shot all 8 around 1.5 inch group darn near dead center. I was very impressed.
Now my friend is clowning my "wussy" load is probably not breaking 800fps but I dont care. It hits where I aim and to me, that more important. Whats more important to you?

[tiller]

Velocity doesnt matter to me... Would you like to be shot with either round?? Probably not...

Will either penetrate the body? You bet??

Accuracy>velocity

[cycle61]

1) Ability to hit the point of aim at the desired distance

2) Ability to deliver the necessary energy to the target at that range

Hopefully this answer is completely useless to you. For me, it's a hot .44 magnum. For my GF, it's a mild .44 special. For either of us, it's a factory Speer 124 gr GDHP 9mm.

YMMV.

[Capt.Dunsel]

What good does a fast moving projectile have if you can't hit what your aiming at?

I like to load for the best accuracy with the best velocity to get the job done.

[bombadillo]

Bullet placement trumps all.

[drdarrin@sbcglobal.net]

If you can't hit it the speed doesn't matter.

[Whiterabbit]

you never said the accuracy of his load. He can file sights or change them or adjust them to hit bullseye if that's what range he wants to calibrate to.

But if he's shooting 8's and you are shooting 1.5's, I don't see how he "can make fun of you" for shooting cat sneeze rounds.

I don't care about bullseye. I care about group size. Once you have the load that shoots tight, just fix the sights to that load if you want.

[Timberwolf]

Accuracy trumps speed. Rather hit something dead on with a slow bullet that miss it with a fast one.

[GeoffLinder]

Beyond bullet placement, power factor (PF) is a major determining factor in stopping power for the .45ACP round. Factory FMJ loading is typically a 220gr at about 950 fps which provides a 210,000 (or 210) power factor. That load is considered a real handful recoil wise and makes fast repeat shots hard to get off.

At 200gr, 800-850fps is gonna give you about a 165-168 PF, which is considered quite powerful in most circles (it makes Major in USPSA competition) AND provides a reasonable level of recoil to control. A 200gr going 1050+ fps is gonna get you back into the 210 PF full power range where recoil is a big factor in controllability.

I would recommend adding just a smidgeon more powder and sticking to the 175-180 PF level with .45ACP for general practice. This will keep you from developing a bad case of "recoil anticipation" also known as flinch

When it comes to self defense, stoke up with a quality factory full power 180gr jacketed hollow point. Higher velocities help hollow points expand properly is soft materials. Get a little practice in with them to make sure you know the difference, but keep practicing with the lower PF heavier bullet hand loads and you won't develop bad habits that keep you from gaining good shot placement when the time for that comes a calling!

BTW, PF is calculated by multiplying the bullet weight in grains by the velocity in fps.

Hope this helps.

[bruceflinch]

Beyond bullet placement, power factor (PF) is a major determining factor in stopping power for the .45ACP round. Factory FMJ loading is typically a 220gr at about 950 fps which provides a 210,000 (or 210) power factor. That load is considered a real handful recoil wise and makes fast repeat shots hard to get off.

At 200gr, 800-850fps is gonna give you about a 165-168 PF, which is considered quite powerful in most circles (it makes Major in USPSA competition) AND provides a reasonable level of recoil to control. A 200gr going 1050+ fps is gonna get you back into the 210 PF full power range where recoil is a big factor in controllability.

I would recommend adding just a smidgeon more powder and sticking to the 175-180 PF level with .45ACP for general practice. This will keep you from developing a bad case of "recoil anticipation" also known as flinch

When it comes to self defense, stoke up with a quality factory full power 180gr jacketed hollow point. Higher velocities help hollow points expand properly is soft materials. Get a little practice in with them to make sure you know the difference, but keep practicing with the lower PF heavier bullet hand loads and you won't develop bad habits that keep you from gaining good shot placement when the time for that comes a calling!

BTW, PF is calculated by multiplying the bullet weight in grains by the velocity in fps.

Hope this helps.

Well since you dragged me into the thread...

[Manolito]

Geoff for the win in my corner. Most bullets expand and perform their best at over 1Kfps. The .45 has always loaded just under the 1K mark. When you read the morbidity reports you will find many people live from hand gun shots because the bullet did not penetrate far enough to damage the well protected intern vitals.

If you are developing a round for self defense how are you going to test effective damage? I would load for comfort and accuracy for range shooting and follow the advice of others and purchase a good already tested self defense round.

Just my thought.

Sure is fun to find that one round that is comfortable and hits right where you want it leaving you the only excuse for a miss is you.

[CalTeacher]

DVC

[cruddymutt]

Well the story deepens. I found out my friend does not even load his own ammo. He has his uncle do it for him so I asked his uncle what his load is. 8.1 seems like alot to me. 5gr fills the case halfway and IMO 8.1 would be a compressed load. Maybe not but it seems like it would. Anyways, he told me the load is actually 6.5gr Unique. He just tells my friend whatever he wants to hear and what he wants to hear is that his gun is the strongest most bad arsest 1911 on the planet that shoots 2600fps.
These are just paper killing rounds for my myself, wife and kids to shoot for fun. My HD gun is my SA XD-40 (working a load up for that as well, just waiting for supplies).
The uncle has offered to let me use his chrono. Next day off Ill see what mine are actually moving at.

[johnny1290]

I have no idea how fast mine are going. I load to make it cycle reliably. Then I increase load and pick whatever combination of nice groups and easy shooting works for me. Lately that's been at the very low end. Its plenty accurate and just more fun for me to shoot.

I find the hotter loads to be less comfortable to shoot and my groups open up.

I'm not a good shot by any means, judging by my groups vs. others at the indoor range. I *do* manage to hit the targets at 35 and 50 yards over at Angeles more than some. It's really satisfying to hear the sound of the bullet hitting the target after not having been able to do it for so long!

[Cowboy T]

"Gun control" = "consistently hitting the bullseye at 25 paces."

Only accurate guns and loads are interesting to me. If I want something with more oomph than what I'm shooting that day, I call for the bigger gun and round.

For example, I've got two loads for .45 Colt, "mild" and "wild", both shot out of a Ruger Super Redhawk 454. The mild load is about 850 fps with a 200gr cast boolit. The wild load is right about 1,300 FPS with a 255gr cast boolit (about the same power as full-house .44 Magnum loads). Both loads were designed for the tightest precision, i. e. small group size. This is how I design all of my loads.

As Col. Townsend Whelen put it, "only accurate rifles are interesting." The same applies to handguns, or ammo.