No joy with Wolf SR223 primers

[johnny1290]

I bought a ton of these to use with my Saiga .223. I tested my first batch at the range today, and got 5 duds out of 100 or so.

I'm less than thrilled with my first experience using Wolf primers. I don't recall seeing any that didn't have anvils, they were loaded flush with the bottom of the case. I'm using H335. These are the new formulation that are a thicker cup and a little hotter than the magnum. I read someplace there was a problem igniting H335 with the regular SRP or something like that.

I gave each more than one strike to see if that did anything for me, but no dice. I was using 24 grains of powder, using a lee single disc and the largest hole. I've got a dual disk setup too.

I'm not sure what could've gone wrong, really. I cleaned the primer pockets, there was a clear hole into the case.

Maybe I needed a little bit bigger charge to ensure contact with the primer? I stored the rounds nose down, maybe that was the problem?

I guess there * could * be oil contamination, as I didn't tumble the cases after de-capping, but jeez, I didn't think there was *that* much oil in the neck, but maybe enough to kill a primer!

Anyway those are my things to look into. Unfortunately I already primed 900 more cases LOL so I'm stuck with whatever results I get with those. It's just practice ammo so it's not the end of the world but I'd like the stuff to go bang.

Anyway those are my thoughts of things to check or do, before blaming the Wolf primers themselves. I've never reloaded rifle before, so what do I know. I guess the length and whatnot were OK as I had no feeding or extraction problems.

Thanks for your suggestions!

[johnny1290]

Man the more I think about it, the more I think I laid on the oil inside the neck becuase I was getting them jammed, and I don't have a tumbler so I figured it would be OK.

Wrong!!!

Guess who's buying a tumbler?!? Glad I primed those 1000 cases LOL

I'm going to do an expereiment and load up a set of ones I didn't have to size and compare with sized cases to see if I get misfires. I'm pretty certain I know the answer but time will tell!

[Fyathyrio]

You say the primers were flush, they should be slightly recessed. Wolf have harder then average cups, and these are a little harder still. More "Oooomph" on the priming stroke may be all you need. For the primed but unloaded brass, try running through again and see if they will seat a bit further.

[johnny1290]

Thanks, I should have said they're slightly recessed. I primed them by hand.

Doesn't hurt to check though so I just went and tried again, they're as seated as they're going to get I reckon.

My experience is that if it's a primer seating issue it fires on the second strike, and none of these did after 2 or 3 times of trying.

I sized all the cases I have, I forgot, all of them were lubed.

Meh, that's alright I guess. I needed a tumbler anyway, cases were getting shabby on the 9mm. Maybe I could wash them or something but I'm not convinced that'll do what I want, or that I want to go through the hassle of drying them LOL

[bohoki]

did your duds fire the second time you hit them?

i used some wolf sr and had a couple pierce

[gunboat]

did you tear them down to see if they had powder?
takes a lot of oil to contaminated powder and I don't think oil in neck will migrate to primer. Not even sure oil would kill the primer.
If your primers are not seated fully the firing pin can waste energy moving the primer forward --
Any chance your case is too short? - same result as above -

[Southpaw45]

Thanks, I should have said they're slightly recessed. I primed them by hand.

Doesn't hurt to check though so I just went and tried again, they're as seated as they're going to get I reckon.

My experience is that if it's a primer seating issue it fires on the second strike, and none of these did after 2 or 3 times of trying.

I sized all the cases I have, I forgot, all of them were lubed.

Meh, that's alright I guess. I needed a tumbler anyway, cases were getting shabby on the 9mm. Maybe I could wash them or something but I'm not convinced that'll do what I want, or that I want to go through the hassle of drying them LOL

Its not advised to try to seat primers deeper with loaded ammo. CAUTION!. I use Wolf primers all the time but never the .223 primers and have good luck with them. What does the firing pin indentation on a dud round look like? Does it look like its getting hit hard enough?

[TomMcC]

I returned over $500 worth to Wolf for this problem. They are in Anaheim. Give them a call.

[johnny1290]

Thanks, guys.

Here's a pic of the duds. I haven't torn them down yet. Good looking out, I didn't try to re-seat primers on loaded ammo, just primed cases.

There's powder in the rounds, they pass the shake test.

I load on a progressive but prime by hand, so I have a couple ziplocks filled with primed brass.

I saw a test, I'm convinced oil will kill a primer from the open face anyway.

I don't know that's what did this or anything, but I gotta eliminate all the variables before I blame the primers.

[jonzer77]

I returned over $500 worth to Wolf for this problem. They are in Anaheim. Give them a call.

I would give Wolf a call and give them the lot numbers and let them know the problems you are having. I have used about 8k of their primers and I only had one bad one so you may have just got a bad batch.

[Josh3239]

I had the same experience, I think about a year ago. It was a couple duds in about 100 loaded .223s with H335. Most of them wouldn't go off, a few needed a 2nd or 3rd hit.

[Trickpony]

I've used about 30k of the Wolf 223 primers (silver ones) with great success. The bronze colored ones are junk in my opinion and I won't use them.

[Wrangler John]

From your picture there could be two things going on, separately or both together.

The primers are completely crushed by the firing pin strike. This will cause an occasional failure to fire, as the priming mix will be destroyed rather than ignite (yeah, I know it sounds counter intuitive). assuming that you are removing the primer crimp from military spec cases the two things are:

First thing is the primers appear to be seated too high, the best depth is for the primer to be seated .004" below the case head. As other posters have mentioned the Wolf primer is a tight fit, which makes them hard to seat. I use a lot of Wolf Large Rifle Primers and they can be really difficult to seat to full depth. Most brass does not have a square bottom primer pocket that will allow consistent full seating depth (including Lapua). So what i do is uniform all primer pockets prior to the first loading of new brass. If reloading fired factory loaded cases, I would do the uniforming before reloading. The Sinclair Uniformer Tool is designed to cut the primer pocket to allow that .004" depth below the case head. I use a power tool adapter and cordless drill to uniform the pockets. It only has to be done once.

http://www.sinclairintl.com/search/index.htm?k=Primer+Pocket+Uniformer+tool&ksubmit=y

The second cause could be too much firing pin protrusion. This can be checked with the hole depth gauge on a dial caliper alone, or with a firing pin protrusion gauge and dial caliper, or an armorer's protrusion gauge in the case of an AR-15, etc. A gunsmith is advised here. Firing pin protrusion is usually set somewhere between .035" above the bolt face to .060". I use .040" in all my bolt action rifles, but some semiautomatics may be set to the high side to ensure firing with every lot of ammo.

http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/measuring-tools/firing-pin-protrusion-gauges/firing-pin-protrusion-gauge-prod26477.aspx

I would suggest that you try seating below the case head, this depth can be measured with the hole depth gauge on a dial caliber, or by laying a straight edge across the case and examining the primer, it should be obvious if it is set properly.

I tried dipping the case heads into this product:
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/614...vc=subv1892537 which does ease seating somewhat. After you shoot up those Wolf primers, try Remington 7-1/2BR or another USA made primer. Although those Wolf LR primers are very accurate in my rifles.

Nothing is ever easy. Every time I think I got everything, I find I still need a new tool or gadget to make something else work.

[johnny1290]

Thank you so much Wrangler John!

As a matter of fact, I'm using a RCBS hand primer I haven't used before. I tried re-seating the primers with that and it's as deep as its gonna go. AFAIK you can't adjust the seating depth. After reading your reply, I threw them in the Pro 1000 and used the seating ram to put them in just a scootch more. I wasn't *thrilled* with the seating depth from the hand primer. It seemed adequate, but I like to feel it completely bottomed out in the pocket, and that's what they felt like after doing that on the press.

The above photo were rounds I did second or third strikes on, FWIW.

I've got 50 rounds I hand primed, and 100 rounds press seated.

I hate to do it, but I may just have to go to the range and shoot them all off for testing!

Its a dirty job, but someone has to do it!

Thanks for the tips on the dry lube and the pocket uniformer, etc. I just bought a Lyman primer pocket cleaner yesterday to give my hands a break from that itty-bitty lee one with no handle LOL I saw they have a uniformer there too, sigh, I guess I can pick that up too. I'll see if they have that case neck lube. Looks like a good idea. I kept getting my decaping pin popping out if I didn't lube the necks, and I hate resetting that thing.

Every time I think I don't need to buy any more stuff, there's more.

I'm going broke saving money! ;-)

[M27]

assuming that all other parts of the process are correct and the problem is with the primers

is that the primer may not sat all the way down in the pocket. if you think about it, the anvil of the primer needs to be touching the bottom of the pocket. Do you think yours are.

how have they been stored, have they been kept dry?