45ACP 230gr, W231 powder, load question

[MrNiceGuy]

I'm reloading 45 ACP 230gr "Montana Gold" bullets.
I'm using Winchester 231 powder.
Winchester large pistol primers, if that matters.
Mix brass (but mostly Winchester brass), if that matters.

The gun is a standard GI Springfield with the original spring(s), don't know the how many pounds the factory springs are.

According to the load data (from Winchester/Hodgdon website), the minimum load is 4.2grs and the maximum is 5.3grs.

But I've seen folks on thehighroad.org suggest higher loads like 5.6grs using 230gr bullets with W231 powder, as their everyday all purpose load.

I'm not comfortable going above the manufacturer's suggested max.
But at the same time, I'd like to come up with a good all purpose load using the W231 powder for the 230gr bullet.

Anyone else loading past 5.3grs using the W231 + 230gr bullets?

Incidentally, my C.O.L is around 1.255" (since most factory ammo I bought were around that length). Don't know if that matters or not.

Any input is greatly appreciated.

I got a small batch of bullets loaded up at 4.8gr, 5.1gr, and 5.3gr that I'm going to try out at the range to see which works best.
Just wondering if going above 5.3gr is a good idea and if anyone have good results past 5.3gr with the same powder/bullet weight combo.

[1911su16b870]

I am not loading 231 past 5 grains.

I have been using 5.0 grains of 231 in my 230 FMJ 45acp loads for a long time. My most consistent shooting (as in the same hole) has been the same 5.0 grains behind a copper plated 200 grain. All fired through a 5-in barrel 1911.

[pklin1297]

The last load I used for my lead SWC 200 gr. bullet was 5.8 grains of 231, maximum load listed on Lyman reloading manual was 6.3 and starting was 5.4. My memory maybe a bit fuzzy so when I get home from work tonight I will verify but it should be pretty close if not dead on with what I just wrote. If someone is near a Lyman manual right now please verify.

If you have access to another manual MrNiceGuy, check them out to see their data. I usually would check out data from both my Sierra and Lyman manuals to gauge my powder load weight, since I usually don't start at the suggested start weight.


Edit: Max load from Lyman manual for 231 and 200gr SWC was actually 6.1, not 6.4.

[new cal shooter]

if you can find out how fast your rounds are flying down range, chrony them, then FPS tell if your on point or not,800 +/- a few is perfect, as long as your gun cycles 100% of the time, use the least about of charge you can, save powder and wear on your gun.

My .02

[mike100]

two thoughts...you could chrono the max load from the current data...

and you could break out 15 yr old less lawyerized loading manuals to see what the max used to be. Now you do need to consider if the powder formulation has been altered significantly over the years, but... there is a little *** covering from the legal dept. with some of these popular powders. 231 is a little fast for 6 grains in 45, but I did chrono 5.2g and 5.3g with a lead 230 grain:

cut and paste from my database-->


book lists (optimistically)-
4.3 gr 699 fps
5.3 gr 834 fps
5.2 gr feels like factory ammo. Noted as accurate in original notes.

4-7-07 Chrono session:
5.2 gr 231
4.25" cmdr 1911 (DW) 690-760fps
5" 1911 710-740fps
6" HK Elite 750-800fps

light loads cycled well with 16# spring

a little under factory spec, but I did not go further with 231..I like Unique in 45 (6 grains is factory velocity).

[eaglemike]

I would not suggest going over the max book suggestion. If you want the bullet to go faster, use a different (slower) powder. The 230 grain bullet at 5.3 grains and your overall length is going to be plenty good enough to shoot. The loads you listed to try are a great idea IMHO. Se which one you like best. I'm thinking you'll agree over 5.3 would be unnecessary. Most people I know that shoot a lot don't shoot maximum loads in handguns - unless there is a need for it.

all the best,

Mike

[Benelli Boy]

I use 5.3 - 5.7 grains of W231 with various 230gr FMJ without any trouble. My c.o.l. is 1.260 inch . Hope this helps.

[Black_Talon]

Sierra manual gives something like 5.7 of 231 as max with 230FMJs. Call their 800 number and talk to them, they have great customer service.

That said, I've been using 5.6 of 231 with 230gr jacketed bullets for over 30 years now. It's my standard range load, show no pressure signs, and feels a bit lighter than factory WWB/American Eagle, etc. The factory ammo generally chronos in the low 800FPS range, FWIW.

I just chronographed several different 5.6 231/230gr loads this morning at Burro. WW 230FMJs were right at 800FPS out of a 5" 1911. Speer 230gr Gold Dots were 820FPS. This is the standard range that I've been getting with this load for over 30 years now. It is certainly not very hot, and also burns nice and clean.

FWIW, when I shot ISPC back in the late 1980's, my standard Major load was 6gr of 231with a 200 gr LSWC. I shot tens of thousands of these through my comp gun with zero issues.

Keep in mind, loading manuals are edited by lawyers, not ballisticians. Over the past 20+ years, "max loads" have been getting slower every time a new edition is published.

[new cal shooter]

I too have noticed that "MAX" loads are not very Max, they are about standard. BUT always work your way up, like all the books tell you.

[MrNiceGuy]

Thanks for all the great input everybody.
I'll head to the range and chrono my 4.8, 5.1, and 5.3 loads and see how it feels and for accuracy.
I'll work my way up to 5.6 if I have to depending on how my gun likes the current loads.
I'll report back after the my range trip.

Wonder if United Sportsman in Concord have a chrono.....guess I'll call them tomorrow...:P

[jimmythebrain]

I have loaded 45 ACP with 230 gr FMJ bullets with 6.0 gr of W231 AOL of 1.265" this chrono'd to 800 FPS out of my 5 inch Sig GSR.

Factory Winchester White Box 100 rd bulk pack 230 gr FMJ chrono'd at 821 FPS out of the GSR.

Factory Remington UMC 230 gr FMJ chrono'd at 813 FPS out of the GSR.

I loaded 230 gr lead round nose bullets with 4.9 gr of W231, AOL of 1.250. That chrono'd at 798 FPS.

[aklon]

I use 5 grains of 231 w/ Winchester LP primers, either PMC or Remington brass with a 230 gr. Hornady HP-XTP. This load is accurate and consistent in all my .45s.

[bruceflinch]

Well this shows the need for more than one reloading manual. My Lyman does not list W231 for the .45 I've been using Unique & it is good ( & dirtier ) than W231 that I use for .40...

[Turbinator]

I just tried out 5.3gr of HP38 (which I hear is identical to W231) with 230gr plated bullets, and found it to be a bit snappy, personally. I'm going to scale back to 5.0gr to see if that helps out. There were no feed / extraction problems at all.

Turby

[MrNiceGuy]

Ok....got back from the range over the weekend testing out the 4.8, 5.1 and 5.3 grain loads.

Unfortunately some of the bullets were not crimped properly (failed the press bullet on the bench to see if bullet sink test), my bad for being sloppy.

On top of that the SL indoor range didn't have a chrono (it was at night so my range choice was limited).

I hand fed the 45 one bullet at a time to see how individual loads felt.
The 5.1 and 5.3 grain loads felt like standard factory loads, no extraction problem.
4.8 felt slightly lighter, with 2 extraction problem out of 20 shots fired.
Can't comment on feeding issues since I hand fed my gun individually due to my sloppy crimp job.

Accuracy was hard to differentiate since all shots landed within the 10 ring from 25 yards (max distance for SL indoor range), regardless of load.

I also pulled 5 bullets from each load batch when I got home to re-weight the powder charge to make sure each batch was within the right weight, they were all spot on, no deviation (which was rather surprising).

To do:
Do a better job at crimping.
Find a range with a chrono.
Make a new batch of 5.0, 5.2, and 5.4 grain bullets and test them out.

Hopefully I'll get time this weekend to head out to the range again.