Bullet seating troubles

[gottarollwithit]

I just set up my Lee turret press and a new set of Redding Ti Carbide .45 acp dies.

http://www.redding-reloading.com/pages/titancarb.html

I can't seem to figure out why my shell casings are cutting into my bullets.
I'm using brand new nickel Remi cases and 230 gr Rainer JHP's. I've tried adjusting the expander such that it enlarges the case mouth more, but it just doesn't seem to help. I've made 3 nasty cartridges that have the bullet seated, but a part of the bullet's jacket hang over the edge of the casing.

Have any advice? Am i missing something here? I checked to make sure that the cases were dimensionally within spec before i began. These goofy and mangled up cartridges won't even chamber b/c of the lead/jacket hanging over the side of the casing.

[StraightShooter]

Was it a 3 die set or 4 die set? It mentions the pro series does not have an expander die. Are you sure you are using an expander die and not just a sizing die? You mentioned adjusting the expander die. If you adjust it all the way down does it do anything to the case? I cant imagine why it wouldnt be working.

[savage1]

I just had this problem setting up my .45 dies the other night, that and wrinkling the cases. Back the seating die out a couple of turns, maybe more and then run the seater itself back down in the die to achieve the coal. I have about a 1/4 inch gap between the shell holder and the bottom of the die now and have had no further problems.

[ar15barrels]

Your seating die is too far down.
It's crimping the case into the bullet too much.
Loosen the seating die a couple turns out of the press.
Then run a case (without a bullet) up into the die.
Now finger snug the die down until it touches the case.
Then lower the case from the die and turn the die in about 1/4 turn and lock the die there.
Now set a bullet on the case and run it up into the seater die.
Check the overall length and re-adjust the seating stem as necessary to get you back to the proper overall length you desire.

Problems like this are related to one die doing both the seating and the crimping.
It's easier to adjust separate seat and crimp dies, but your press needs an extra station to run separate dies.

[gottarollwithit]

Using the 3 die pistol set. Definitely am using the expander die. Not only is it marked, i looked inside it and saw the big finger shaped metal thingy that goes into the shell casing and expands it.

I'll try Savage's advice. Anybody else have any thoughts?

[crowbar]

Try adjusting your expander die so it flares the case mouth more. Also, make sure the bullet is "plumb" in the case before seating the bullet. The case mouth should flare enough to hold the bullet; I use enough expansion to easily place a lead SWC on the case and seat it without shaving lead. I also sacrifice an unprimed case to use in setting up both my expander and my seating dies. Once I'm happy with the amount of case mouth flare, I seat the bullet gradually until I'm satisfied with the overall length. Then I save the dummy round in the die box to reset the seater if I've switched bullets for any reason.

Mike

[gottarollwithit]

Ok, let's go this way. How much is it ok to expand the case to? According to the manual, you only expand it just enough to get the bullet to seat.

I had all of the dies set up and working a few nights ago. Last night i switched them around in the turret which required reinstallation.
I know for certain that i kept the expander position and dialed in a little bit more upon reinstallation. This is why i like to think that i'm expanding properly.

A little while ago, i cranked the expander plug all the way down. I practically expanded the entire case. Is this safe to do? It's loose enough to push the bullet in the case by hand. Last i checked, we're not doing any crimping here b/c the bullet's don't have a crimp groove. (This is what the Redding manual says) Or is my die doing a crimp job with out me knowing it?

After following Randall's instructions and doing some super expanding, bullet seating isn't a prob.

Also, what do you guys do with messed up cartridges? Is there a way to remove the bullet with out using a bullet puller? Vise grips maybe?

Thanks!

[StraightShooter]

Its can be really hard to get the bullet out of the case without a bullet puller. I tried it with some .243 winchester and some 357 mag and I couldnt get it out without damaging both the bullet and the casing. I would suggest just throwing away the ones you messed up unless you loaded enough of them to justify the price of a bullet puller. I probably wouldnt buy a bullet puller unless I messed up more than 50-70 rounds (.45 ammo) based upon the cost of components I am using.

[ar15barrels]

How much is it ok to expand the case to?

About 0.030" over bullet diameter is the most you should ever need but some expanders only have a step, not a long taper.
The ones with a step, you only want the step to enter the case about 0.050" at the most.
This will leave a cylindrical area for the bullet to set before you seat it.

A little while ago, i cranked the expander plug all the way down.
I practically expanded the entire case. Is this safe to do?
It's loose enough to push the bullet in the case by hand.

Very bad.
Don't do that anymore.
You should never be able to seat the bullet by hand.
That's a sign of a cylindrical expander plug being down about 3/8" too far.

Last i checked, we're not doing any crimping here b/c the bullet's don't have a crimp groove. (This is what the Redding manual says)
Or is my die doing a crimp job with out me knowing it?

I think your seater is also crimping.
You taper crimp when there is no crimping groove.

what do you guys do with messed up cartridges?
Is there a way to remove the bullet with out using a bullet puller? Vise grips maybe?

Take a 1/2" fender washer and set it on top of the press where a die would usually be installed.
Run the offending cartridge up through the washer and grab the bullet with pliers or vise grips.
Use the press leverage to pull the case off the bullet.
The bullet will be mauled by the pliers, but the powder, primer and case should still be fine.
Get a bullet puller soon.

[Jicko]

Call Kirk @ Redding. He will help you out.

[eaglemike]

Here's a good rule of thumb for how much to expand the case. It should be expanded just enough that the base of the bullet will be just below the top of the case when you set it in place. You shouldn't have to hold it in place as you cycle the press, it should sit in the case, with the base just below the top. It's not necessary to expand any more than that, or desirable. Any more will work the brass excessively, and add extra work for you when it's time to crimp.

Since you're using a 3 die set, setting the seating and crimping die will take a couple of steps. First you need to know what overall length you want. Since you're shooting .45acp, and a FMJ, I'd suggest 1.265 be the goal. Have the case expanded as above, just enough for the bullet to sit in the top of the case. Screw the seating plug down an extra 4 or 5 turns, and the case should not crimp around the bullet at all yet. Run the press a little at a time - not all the way - until the overall length is where you want it. 1.260 would also be ok. Now - you have the length good, right? Back the seating plug waaay out. You're now going to adjust the crimp. Leavve the crimp die backed off, and run the round you just used all the way up in the crimping station. Screw the body of the crimping die down until it touches the case. Back the press handle off just a little and screw the die body down about 1/2 turn. Then run the case and bullet back up into the die, and back out, check the crimp. This will give you a starting place for the crimp. You want enough crimp to hold the bullet. You can also measure at the moth of the case, right at the edge, and use .470 diameter as a starting point. The crimp should also just barely take the sharp edge from the mouth of the case, as you run your finger from the bullet to the case. Okay, you have the length and crimp set now, right? Run the bullet back up into the crimping die, and screw the seating punch down until it touches the bullet. This should get you going.

A couple more things - the overall length will be a little longer than your first setting when you have rounds working in all station of a multi-station press. This is because there is now more pressure against the entire assemble. So - adjust the seating punch, check the first few rounds and continue to sample them as you go.

Also - I'm not there to help you. You're the guy doing the work, etc - so YMMV, wear safety glasses, be especially cautious with the powder. The above OAL has worked for me many times. Check the book you're using, and make up your own mind on how and what you want to do.

all the best,

Mike