Help setting up RCBS swager die [Update: problem solved]

[edrex]

Trying to set up an RCBS swager combo on my Lee classic turret press. I followed the directions and couldn't get it to work. I tried tweaking the rod height and the depth of the die. Nothing seems to make a difference, the primer pocket looks exactly the same coming out as it does going in. Most of the time the case is still loose on the swager nub and comes right off even after being pressed against the rod.
I tried seating a primer in one case that I had attempted to swage thinking maybe the difference is not very noticeable but it did not seat normally at all, took more force and was not smooth.
Any tips or tricks on what I might be doing wrong? I've read that swaging should take about the same force on the handle as seating a primer, but even giving it damn near all I got I can't get it to work correctly.

[bruceflinch]

Do you have the right size Swage rod matched w/ your primer hole?

[edrex]

I believe so, using small rod and small swager for 223.

[BenHa]

There should just be a tiny bevel around the primer hole. Try priming the case if it doesn't go in readjust your zswaging

[mrkubota]

primer pocket depths may differ as well...
The K&M tool works better:

http://www.kmshooting.com/catalog/primer-pocket-correction-tools/small-rifle_pistol-primer-correction-tool.html

[klewan]

There are two versions, which one do you have? From the Midway comments, suggest sorting by headstamp. The web thickness varies and the rod will bend if you attempt to do a thick web when it's adjusted for a thin web. Also only do the mouth of the primer pocket. I axed about this a few years ago and somebody said they were just swagging the top half of the pocket. Anybody else do that?

[Bill Steele]

Trying to set up an RCBS swager combo on my Lee classic turret press. I followed the directions and couldn't get it to work. I tried tweaking the rod height and the depth of the die. Nothing seems to make a difference, the primer pocket looks exactly the same coming out as it does going in. Most of the time the case is still loose on the swager nub and comes right off even after being pressed against the rod.
I tried seating a primer in one case that I had attempted to swage thinking maybe the difference is not very noticeable but it did not seat normally at all, took more force and was not smooth.
Any tips or tricks on what I might be doing wrong? I've read that swaging should take about the same force on the handle as seating a primer, but even giving it damn near all I got I can't get it to work correctly.

Have you tried seating a primer to check that the brass hasn't previously been swaged (before you got it)?

[edrex]

There should just be a tiny bevel around the primer hole. Try priming the case if it doesn't go in readjust your zswaging

When I tried priming a case after running it through the swager it took extra force and "clunked" in hard, not smoothly like other cases I've primed. I don't see a bevel.

There are two versions, which one do you have? From the Midway comments, suggest sorting by headstamp. The web thickness varies and the rod will bend if you attempt to do a thick web when it's adjusted for a thin web. Also only do the mouth of the primer pocket. I axed about this a few years ago and somebody said they were just swagging the top half of the pocket. Anybody else do that?

I have this one. It seems to be the new updated version with stronger rods.
I am also using brass I sorted already.

Have you tried seating a primer to check that the brass hasn't previously been swaged (before you got it)?

The brass is 556 Lake City brass that I bought new and shot out of my gun so it hasn't been swaged already.

[sofbak]

..... Most of the time the case is still loose on the swager nub and comes right off even after being pressed against the rod. ....

Based on this, there are three possible conditions here:

1. Your press is not raising the case high enough into the die, or the stop rod is mis-adjusted preventing full engagement of the pocket with that swaging nub.

2. Defective (undersized) swaging nub. Try fitting it into a crimped pocket with your hand. If it is a tight fit and not loose, then the problem may be #1.

3. Mismatch between primer/pocket size and the nub (I know you covered that, just added here for completeness).

I would propose that the stop rod is not adjusted down enough to contact the interior of the case soon enough. So the rod doesn't stop the case in time for the press to force the pocket onto the nub. Just to be sure the die/rod are adjusted correctly, did you check out the video in that Midway page for this die?

[edrex]

Based on this, there are three possible conditions here:

1. Your press is not raising the case high enough into the die, or the stop rod is mis-adjusted preventing full engagement of the pocket with that swaging nub.

2. Defective (undersized) swaging nub. Try fitting it into a crimped pocket with your hand. If it is a tight fit and not loose, then the problem may be #1.

3. Mismatch between primer/pocket size and the nub (I know you covered that, just added here for completeness).

I would propose that the stop rod is not adjusted down enough to contact the interior of the case soon enough. So the rod doesn't stop the case in time for the press to force the pocket onto the nub. Just to be sure the die/rod are adjusted correctly, did you check out the video in that Midway page for this die?

Thanks for the info and heads up on the video, hadn't seen that before. Gonna go try it out again.

[edrex]

It feels like maybe the nub is bottoming out in the primer pocket before the bevel gets to the crimp. Its hard to get a decent pic of it, but I took a measurement of the primer pocket depth with my caliper and lined it up with the nub. At most, the very start of the bevel would engage, but the bulk of it would not reach the brass. Is this how it should be? Since I have no experience with this I assume the problem is me and not the equipment, but this still doesn't seem right. It also makes sense that no matter how hard I press nothing happens; seems like I'm just forcing the tip of the nub and the end of the rod on either side of the brass into each other without room for the bevel to do its job.

[sofbak]

Still sounds like the die and rod are too high in the turret head, and you are simply out of stroke on the ram before sufficient case contact with the spud occurs. The instructions say:

"The amount of swaging is controlled by moving the Swager body up or down."

With the ram down, try screwing the die into the turret head a half or quarter turn and try that. Repeat until the spud on the swager head is engaging the rim of the pocket where the swage is, then fine tune with smaller adjustments.

[edrex]

I've double checked on the links below the ram, there is definitely enough room to go. I've lowered the die so the spud and rod touch well before the ram is fully up and still no success.

[sofbak]

Well now I'm pretty much stumped. Thinking about this, the only other issue I can come up with is the rod is too long for the die, or not completely seated against the inside of the die at the top.

Maybe it's time for a call to RCBS......

If you get if figured out, post the solution here....I definitely would like to know what's going on........

[edrex]

Thanks for the suggestions, I'll give RCBS a call tomorrow if I get some time. Will post up results if I get it working.