Crimp Question

[rbahri5206]

I am using a lee die set to load some hunting ammo for .223 using my single stage press, my question is i have loaded .223 before with this die set with no issues but the hunting ammo is not crimping i was told by lee that if the bullet does not have a cantilure that the die wont crimp it and that i need the lee factory crimp die. is there any truth to that? also don't know if this detail makes a difference but when i make target practice ammo i don't have to flare the bullets any more then what the die does but when i use hunting tips i have to flare the case (i use a plumb bob from home depot with a little from a small hammer) or the bullet wont drop in.

[kurac]

That die should have a roll crimp, so if you try to crimp a bullet without a cannelure, you will end up colapsing the shoulder

[rbahri5206]

That die should have a roll crimp, so if you try to crimp a bullet without a cannelure, you will end up colapsing the shoulder

which is what was happening, so i do need the factory crimp die for hunting ammo?

[Bill Steele]

which is what was happening, so i do need the factory crimp die for hunting ammo?

The LFCD for rifle rounds has a collet that clamps down and forms the roll crimp. The built in roll crimp in the seating die is a collar that pushes down on the case mouth (hence the crushed cases when trying to crimp a bullet without a cannelure, this also happens when you get an untrimmed case with an extra long neck).

In any case, if the bullet doesn't have a cannelure don't crimp it. You should be able to chamfer the inside of the case enough to get flat based bullets to seat. You shouldn't need to flare the case. You really don't need to crimp it if you just chamfer the inside of the mouth of the case.

If for some reason you absoultely have to flare the case to get the bullet to seat without shaving, you can use the crimp portion of the seater to just straighten the case mouth back up, kind of like a taper crimp die. This takes cases where the necks are all consistently trimmed and is a very fine adjustment.

You can also buy a separate taper crimp die and use it to straighten a belled case mouth.

I would not recommend the Lee FCD for use with bullets that do not have a cannelure as it is a roll crimp and only bullets with a cannelure should get a roll crimp.

Hope that makes sense.

[rbahri5206]

The LFCD for rifle rounds has a collet that clamps down and forms the roll crimp. The built in roll crimp in the seating die is a collar that pushes down on the case mouth (hence the crushed cases when trying to crimp a bullet without a cannelure, this also happens when you get an untrimmed case with an extra long neck).

In any case, if the bullet doesn't have a cannelure don't crimp it. You should be able to chamfer the inside of the case enough to get flat based bullets to seat. You shouldn't need to flare the case. You really don't need to crimp it if you just chamfer the inside of the mouth of the case.

If for some reason you absoultely have to flare the case to get the bullet to seat without shaving, you can use the crimp portion of the seater to just straighten the case mouth back up, kind of like a taper crimp die. This takes cases where the necks are all consistently trimmed and is a very fine adjustment.

You can also buy a separate taper crimp die and use it to straighten a belled case mouth.

I would not recommend the Lee FCD for use with bullets that do not have a cannelure as it is a roll crimp and only bullets with a cannelure should get a roll crimp.

Hope that makes sense.

so i went ahead and order the lee factory crimp die. so now when i seat bullets i have to screw the die out and the seat screw in so it does not crimp at all and run them through the factory crimp die. is that correct?

[ExtremeX]

That is correct, back off the existing seating dies so it does not crimp, and basically becomes a dedicated seating die. Then run them again though the Lee FCD to apply a crimp.

I use the Lee factory crimp die almost exclusively on my .223 reloads for both cannelure and non-cannelure bullets, but with different settings to apply crimp.

When dealing with bullets without a cannelure you should not be able to see a visible crimp (more like a small hair line) when you use the die, engage the die it applies a very light crimp. I do this to help uniform pressures for my match loads.

[rbahri5206]

That is correct, back off the existing seating dies so it does not crimp, and basically becomes a dedicated seating die. Then run them again though the Lee FCD to apply a crimp.

I use the Lee factory crimp die almost exclusively on my .223 reloads for both cannelure and non-cannelure bullets, but with different settings to apply crimp.

When dealing with bullets without a cannelure you should not be able to see a visible crimp (more like a small hair line) when you use the die, engage the die it applies a very light crimp. I do this to help uniform pressures for my match loads.

what im seeing is if i look from the top down where the bullet and case meet there is a small gap

[Divernhunter]

I do not crimp any of my rifle loads. I have never had a problem with the ammo in single shot/bolt action/pump or semi-auto rifles. I also have excellent accuracy and speeds over my chrono with my loads. Try just loading them without any crimp and see how they work. Bet they will be fine.
NO need to flare the case mouths, unlike pistio/straight walled brass. IF you want to avoid scraping the bullet just chamfer the brass like you should to.
This has worked for me for many years and on 204Ruger to 50bmg.

[emcon5]

I do not crimp any of my rifle loads. I have never had a problem with the ammo in single shot/bolt action/pump or semi-auto rifles.

This. I never crimp any rifle loads, except 30-06 for a M1. With proper (uniform) neck tension, it just isn't needed in most cases.

Forcing a crimp on a bullet with no cannelure can't be a good thing.....

[ExtremeX]

Crimp vs No Crimp is a personal choice. Only you will know though testing what works best for you. I would try both ways and see what works best.

In my own tests, with the powders I use, I get better results with a crimp applied.

Depending on my load I apply a crimp. I find BL-C2 powder like pressure; I get tighter groups with a VERY LIGHT crimp on bullets with and without cannelure. Now don’t force a crimp, its applied light enough you can’t really see it just to help uniform neck tensions.. I crimp cannelure bullets into the groove, but it’s still not very heavy, just enough to prevent setback in my semi-autos.

[Colt562]

For my rifle rounds I slightly use bevel the inside of the case mouth. If i dont the bullet will not sit straight. Then I apply a small crimp with the Lee Factory Crimp Die. Has worked like a charm for me.

[ar15barrels]

If there is no cannelure, don't crimp.
Pretty simple really.
Bullets designed for crimping have a feature that allows it.
Others don't...

[rbahri5206]

Now please for those of you who are very experienced please don't hang me for asking this but is there such a thing as to much crimp?

[ExtremeX]

Now please for those of you who are very experienced please don't hang me for asking this but is there such a thing as to much crimp?

Yes

Too much crimp can cause issues… deforming the bullet / accuracy issues, damaging case necks, and I’m guessing potential overpressure conditions too.

[rbahri5206]

So how do you know how much to crimp? Is their a guide or a way to measure somehow?